AE911Truth's Shaky Moral Foundation ?

FenerFan said:
I agree. Anyone who is stupid enough to give any money to an obvious kook like Gage deserves to be ripped off.
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I don't think, Dicky Gage is a kook. Nor are Circus side show operators or any common magician. They are quite calculated......taking money from those willing to hand over their money to be deceived as well as taking advantage of the really gullible that truly believe their fraud.....like the few troofer posters left here. :rolleyes:
 
FenerFan said:
I agree. Anyone who is stupid enough to give any money to an obvious kook like Gage deserves to be ripped off.
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In general I condone caveat emptor. But as has been said, Gage can "easily sway" people with his marketing and PR. When that is coupled with pseudo-engineering that makes people feel smart for believing it, you have a machine that's not readily discerned as kookery. The marketplace of ideas still needs some consumer advocates to help expose deliberate deception and bad thinking.
 
JayUtah said:
In general I condone caveat emptor. But as has been said, Gage can "easily sway" people with his marketing and PR. When that is coupled with pseudo-engineering that makes people feel smart for believing it, you have a machine that's not readily discerned as kookery. The marketplace of ideas still needs some consumer advocates to help expose deliberate deception and bad thinking.
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All of Tony Szamboti's "big claims" rely on pseudo engineering. I first identified the trick back in 2007 wih this bit of a post:
Me said:
The paper referenced as Engineering Reality by Tony Szamboti is typical of many which look impressive in detail to the non-engineer. The complex calculations may even be correct but the base premises are faulty and the resulting conclusions can readily be demonstrated to be totally wrong.
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Later "big claims" - "Missing Jolt"; the multiple claims based on axial impact of columns and the WTC 7 Girder walkoff nonsense currently replaying for its third season all start from totally or partially false premises. And they are good enough to convince quite a few engineers so what hope has the lay-person?
 
Clearly the average person... even college educated does not have the background to evaluate the claims of Gage et al. On the face they give the appearance of rigorous science or engineering. One gives those who make such claims a presumption of honesty and integrity. While we know there are fakes and charlatans out there (such as fake doctors) we assume MOST are straight shooters. This presumption gives Gage et al a leg up with the uninformed. And so these people will rather easily be swayed by slick PR... "credentials" and so forth. So when they hear or read that there was molten steel.. they accept this as fact... or steel was ejected to 600'. No fact checking... no independent verification of these statements. With that out of the way... they simple raise all sorts of BS claims, point to observed phenomena that they jawbone it to be a doubtful process related to a non CD or natural collapse... such as the amount of dust, or the time or form of the collapses and so forth. Once a person accepts the credentials of a person, they then easily accept whatever they say/write about the event. It is at this point that these people refuse to examine any other explanations... especially the "lying" US government and their agents.

Lots of infighting about how to run (and control) the truth operations and little work in revealing what actually occurred.
 
JSanderO said:
Clearly the average person... even college educated does not have the background to evaluate the claims of Gage et al. ...
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Only a grade school education is need to see Gage is full of woo, and avoid joining his delusional inside job nonsense. You might want to get a refund on your college education.


Good OP, finding extra paranoid conspiracy theorists attacking fellow paranoid conspiracy theorists. Priceless.
 
gerrycan said:
I don't speak for AE911, and neither do I have insider knowledge of their decisions, and even I know how far off the mark you are with this one Dave.
Did you run out of steel wool or something?
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:D :D :D

Not the only thing they've run out of. And quite some time ago. :D
 
gerrycan said:
I don't speak for AE911, and neither do I have insider knowledge of their decisions, and even I know how far off the mark you are with this one Dave.
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This argument seems to say you've drawn a conclusion and declared a belief, but you admit you have no factual basis or knowledge to support it. Is there any rationale for your belief beyond bald-faced denial?
 
gerrycan said:
I don't speak for AE911, and neither do I have insider knowledge of their decisions, and even I know how far off the mark you are with this one Dave.
Did you run out of steel wool or something?
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ergo said:
:D :D :D

Not the only thing they've run out of. And quite some time ago. :D
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Despite neither of you being spokespersons for AE911T, the implication is that you strongly disagree with the sentiments quoted in the OP.

Perhaps your personal opinions on the error in those quotes in post#1 would be in order then.
OR
Perhaps JayUtah is correct , that you base your conclusions on simple denial.
 
JSanderO said:
I don't understand how they've managed to survive as long as they have maintaining the apparently credibility that they do without being "demolished" for the scammery.
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Well, really it all comes down to this:



JayUtah said:
In general I condone caveat emptor. But as has been said, Gage can "easily sway" people with his marketing and PR. When that is coupled with pseudo-engineering that makes people feel smart for believing it, you have a machine that's not readily discerned as kookery. The marketplace of ideas still needs some consumer advocates to help expose deliberate deception and bad thinking.
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A&E911 have a very useful niche in the CT ecology; they provide a fig leaf of scientific and engineering legitimacy to all the other 9/11 ******** out there. As such, other 9/11 promoters will not go after them for being scam artists, since their scam supports every other scam out there.

And of course, if the CT believers were inclined to listen to people like us here at the JREFF, they wouldn't be CT believers in the first place.

And I'm sure Gage knows all this quite well, and plays his lucrative role with total self awareness. Why else would he be so resistant to making any positive statements about what he thinks happened on 9/11? It's because he knows that that could only serve to alienate one or more major factions of 9/11 CTers, which is simply not in his own best interest. As long as he can keep the JAQing off going, he's on the gravy train.
 
ergo said:
:D :D :D

Not the only thing they've run out of. And quite some time ago. :D
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Ergo, same question to you: is there any fact behind your denial, if in fact you deny the accusations? You have here two statements from people who have credible claims to being privy to the inner workings of AE911T, and you offer nothing in response except puerile jibes.
 
Why haven't people in the know who are now not a part of that sham report them to the authorities? You can't be claiming 503(c) like that if you're not a charitable organization.

Gage needs to be incarcerated.
 
DaveThomasNMSR said:
FWIW, Chandler is still listed as a Supporter of AE911Truth. Can anyone verify that he's broken away from Gage's group?
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I don't know about Chandler, but here's another 9-11 Troofer who was disgusted at Gage's association with the Nation of Islam:

In fact, it is because of the decision to go to this event that I quit as a volunteer team leader after 2.5 years of working at ae911truth. I was not the only one to leave because of this either, however I will not say who else left - that is for themselves to say.
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IIRC, NorCalTruth is the nom de plume of Brian Romanoff, who financed the 9-11 Troof comic book a few years back.
 
beachnut said:
What a weak attack. You should be presenting evidence to support all your silly 911 truth claims of woo, you are stuck with super weak attacks.

You can't support Gage, as he travels on a budget of 500k/yr, while you get nothing for supporting lies from 911 and spreading false information about the fantasy of CD. Gage wins by default, he found a way to get money by fooling people who can't think for themselves, his followers who believe in CD and thermite based on faith.

You spread lies for free, Gage makes 500k/yr. Why can't you make money like Gage does, are your lies not as good.
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Evidently not.
But things like Gage need a great unwashed of believers, gullible and unpaid
 
ozeco41 said:
You are safe - provided only those of us who are without sins of typing are the ones to throw the first stones. (I think I have plagiarised that theme from somewhere. :blush:)
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Ever notice how those who get all het up about another posters spelling generally have one or more in their reply..... ?
 
Listened to the MP3 at that site; it is a treasure trove of wack. The male host (Tom) claims that Gage asks for donations and within a couple of days, half a million dollars comes in. Of course this is a gross exaggeration; their total revenue didn't exceed $500,000 in either 2010 or 2011.

But based on that false premise, Tom leaps to the conclusion that Gage's outfit is a spook (CIA) operation. See, having the database of petition signers lets the spooks know whom they have to keep an eye on.

Ther's only about 10-15 minutes on AE 9-11T; after that they move on to their zany alternative medicine stuff.
 
Ya Health Wyze is an interesting little corner of the alterna-world - seem to have some incisive criticism of fellow travellers (Mike Adams has been a target worth their ire as well) but yet are also propagators of woo...

If we accept there is a spectrum of woo then maybe these guys are just the closest to us on the other side there - possessing some but not enough critical thinking to be completely free of woo..;) That said I think when used in debates with supporters of Mike Adams or Richard Gage this source may have more potential to pass the filter of a True Believer than say, Popular Mechanics, SBM or NIST.
 
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