Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[acbytesla]

Tesla it seems you just make stuff up or offer opinions on subjects you have little knowledge about. Nencini didn't allow one request, he allowed at least two.

Rudi was crossed in the Hellmann trial but only about Alessi's claims that Rudi had told him the kids were innocent whose testimony was brought in at the request of the defense.

You're right. I got my information regarding this not from the transcripts which I should have but a few news articles that I read by using Google. My mistake.

 

[Grinder]

He was asked about some things by the defense that weren't techinically cross but covered the contents of the letter. I believe this was cut off shortly after the below was done:

“…DEFENSE ATTY. DALLA VEDOVA – And so, Mr. Guede, when you write the text that it was “a horrible murder of the wonderful marvelous girl that was Meredith by Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox” what do you mean exactly? Had you ever said this?

WITNESS – Well this, I never said it explicitly in this manner however I always thought it.

DEFENSE ATTY. DALLA VEDOVA – So why did you write it?

WITNESS – I wrote it because it was a thought that I’ve always had [che è sempre stato dentro di me, lit. "that has always been inside me"].

DEFENSE ATTY. DALLA VEDOVA – But then it’s not true.

WITNESS – No it is absolutely true [verissimo].

DEFENSE ATTY. DALLA VEDOVA – And can you elaborate better? What does that mean?

WITNESS – It’s absolutely true.

DIFENSE AVV. DALLA VEDOVA – Do you confirm this fact [circostanza]? By [da parte]?

WITNESS – Well, I with the … well, like I told you earlier, this is a thought that I’ve always had in my head, it’s a thought that in any case in the end I decided to put in written form after hearing certain absurdities, in my opinion [secondo me] and I [get to] take on all the responsibilities [on] hearing a puppet manipulated by certain people, that’s all. Therefore if I wrote those words it’s because they are [real], I’ve always had them inside of me. It’s not up to me to decide who it is that killed Meredith, I in the statement that I made in my trial I always said who was there on that cursed night in that house, therefore I don’t think that I’m saying anything new, I just put in writing my thoughts and I made them tangible [concreta], that’s all. Therefore I don’t see what other questions I should respond to…”.

 

[Grinder]

You're right. I got my information regarding this not from the transcripts which I should have but a few news articles that I read by using Google. My mistake.

As you know I work 24/7 correcting the Internet so please link a couple of these misleading articles. I don't bother with GroundReport and the like.

 

[acbytesla]

As you know I work 24/7 correcting the Internet so please link a couple of these misleading articles. I don't bother with GroundReport and the like.

How do you correct the Internet Grinder? Seems Quixotic to me.

Like getting pee out of a pool.

 

[Grinder]

How do you correct the Internet Grinder? Seems Quixotic to me.

Like getting pee out of a pool.

Don't you worry - just send the links to the articles that misled you.

 

[acbytesla]

Don't you worry - just send the links to the articles that misled you.

No, no...You have to tell me.

 

[Anode]

How do you correct the Internet Grinder? Seems Quixotic to me.

Like getting pee out of a pool.

It's like getting your own DNA out of a crime scene.

 

[acbytesla]

It's like getting your own DNA out of a crime scene.

Very good

Cathode.

 

[Planigale]

I think what i have learned from recent discussions and realised it applies to the Italian courts is the use of argument from authority. In particular not only is there a default to the prosecution expert opinion, but the justification is that they are the prosecution experts and therefore somehow better than the defence experts. In general there seems to have been little attempt to address the arguments made. Thus there is no recognition of the case made (unopposed) for the glass distribution demonstrating the glass was broken by a stone from outside in. The unopposed psychology opinion about induced memories and false confessions.

The sad thing is that the prosecution experts on footprints clearly were not. The same channel five documentary that demonstrated how easily the climb to Filomena's window could be made also included an interview by a physical anthropologist explaining how one had to use dynamic prints made as people walk and run and if possible on a similar surface to match prints. The prosecution experts not only referenced the discredited methods of Robins but wrongly said that the surface the print was made on and the movement of the person making it was irrelevant.

 

[Strozzi]

Tesla it seems you just make stuff up or offer opinions on subjects you have little knowledge about. Nencini didn't allow one request, he allowed at least two.

Rudi was crossed in the Hellmann trial but only about Alessi's claims that Rudi had told him the kids were innocent whose testimony was brought in at the request of the defense.

The letter was read into the record by Mignini. I believe Rudi had sent it to his lawyers or a media outlet.

The first time that Rudy Guede appeared before the Corte di Assise during the criminal proceedings against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito was only when, after having seen the defense of the accused admit to this Court as witnesses Mario Alessi and other prisoners, in relation to what was revealed to them in prison by Rudy Guede about the two defendants’ [Knox and Sollecito] non-involvement [estraneità] in the act of the crimes for which they have been charged [chiamati a rispondere], the General Prosecutor requested that he be heard as a rebuttal witness [a prova contraria] on such alleged disclosures [confidenze]. The General Prosecutor, it should be said, did not request the admission of Rudy Guede so that he could respond regarding the facts of that night (if he was alone or together with the defendants or with others, what was the real unfolding of events in its details, etc…) but only to prove that he had not made to Mario Alessi and the other fellow prisoners any disclosure [confidenza].

Despite the admission of Rudy Guede as a witness limited to such facts (alleged disclosures in prison), the defense tried, given the presence finally of Rudy Guede at a hearing (hearing of 6.27.2011) before the Court and the defendants, to ask some questions directly regarding the facts of that night and not only concerning the alleged disclosures made to fellow prisoners.

But, in truth, even before the same Rudy Guede could assert that he did not want to respond on the facts of that night, the attorney that represented the aforementioned [Guede], Ms. Saccarelli, and the General Prosecutor (even if, having spoken off-microphone, his words are not found in the transcripts), to which the lawyer for the civil party Maresca gave full support, reminding [the court] of the limits of the cross-examination, they objected to the formulation of questions concerning directly the facts that occurred that night rather than merely the interactions [rapporti intrattenuti] with Alessi and the other prisoners, called to testify (Castelluci, De Cesare, Trincia).​

It would be nice if you would get the facts before you make your statements or at least let everyone know that you really don't have an idea.

…DEFENSE ATTY. BONGIORNO – Your Honor, there is one thing to say, that since we’ve just listened to a reading [sentito dare lettura], [where] a letter has been read out which explicitly accuses my client and Amanda, [and] I’m doing a cross-examination, I believe it is at least my right to say to Mr. Guede, after years of pursuing him, whether he wants to recount to us the truth about this homicide.

WITNESS – Can I respond? Well, in the way the letter was read out I think I’m here today to respond in criminal proceedings on the statements, the false statements of Mario Alessi and therefore, like it’s written in the letter, everything that I had to say I’ve already said it to the Judges, to the Public Ministers, to my lawyer, therefore I don’t intend to respond on this topic….

GENERAL PROSECUTOR – …Can I make one clarification? The witness has just said that he doesn’t intend to respond to questions related to the homicide, it’s pointless for the defense to persist hoping that he might be distracted on this decision…”.

But actually, any statements made by Rudy Guede on the facts of that night could not be used against the current defendants, in consideration of the principle of Article 111, paragraph 3, of the Constitution (right [facoltà] of the person accused of a crime to question in front of the judge or to have questioned the persons that make statements on his behalf) and the prohibition enforced by the same Article 111, paragraph 4, of the Constitution and of C.P.P. Article 526, paragraph 1 bis (the guilt of the defendant cannot be proved on the basis of statements made by someone who, by choice, has always voluntarily avoided examination by the accused or his counsel). And, in this context [sotto questo profilo], the statements contained within the letter must be considered within the scope of this prohibition, confirmed by the person [sottoscritta dal soggetto] who declines to respond to questions from the defendant or defense counsel [difensore] on the facts in the letter presented, since this prohibition accommodates the same defense need, protected by the law [norma] and guaranteed constitutionally.

But in any case, regardless of the formal obstacle, it should be observed, in substantive terms [sotto il profilo sostanziale], that, in order to confirm that Rudy Guede had not made any disclosures to Alessi and the other prisoners, the General Prosecutor asked Rudy Guede if he confirmed having written the letter, in which are implicated the current defendants as the perpetrators of the crime, and it is also true that Rudy Guede confirmed it, explaining to have written the letter as a reaction to the alleged – and according to him non-existent – disclosures made in prison to Alessi and the others.​

ETA - It would be difficult to use his statements at the Hellmann trial in his trial since it was over.

This is quite odd to see Mignini, who prosecuted and won conviction of Rudy for murder, defending Rudy's right to avoid testifying on the facts of the murder. Mignini is functioning here in the role of Rudy's defense lawyer. Maresca, who represents the Kercher family in their civil litigation against Raffaele and Amanda, is also voicing support of Rudy not being required to testify on the facts of the murder.

I could understand the judge protecting Rudy's rights. I could understand Rudy's defense lawyer protecting Rudy's rights. But Mignini and Maresca?

Who says Italian prosecutors don't respect defendants rights?

 

[Planigale]

duplicate

 

[acbytesla]

This is quite odd to see Mignini, who prosecuted and won conviction of Rudy for murder, defending Rudy's right to avoid testifying on the facts of the murder. Mignini is functioning here in the role of Rudy's defense lawyer. Maresca, who represents the Kercher family in their civil litigation against Raffaele and Amanda, is also voicing support of Rudy not being required to testify on the facts of the murder.

I could understand the judge protecting Rudy's rights. I could understand Rudy's defense lawyer protecting Rudy's rights. But Mignini and Maresca?

Who says Italian prosecutors don't respect defendants rights?

Everything in this case is strange Strozzi. The defense was asking for just about everything to be tested and the prosecution was against any possible test. That is backwards from what is common.

 

[Strozzi]

How do you correct the Internet Grinder? Seems Quixotic to me.

Like getting pee out of a pool.

It's easy to do. It's like cleaning up all of two peoples' prints and DNA from the scene of a bloody massacre and leaving no swirls or wipe marks, while leaving the prints and DNA of the third guy. Perpetrators do it all the time in Italy.

 

[acbytesla]

It's easy to do. It's like cleaning up all of two peoples' prints and DNA from the scene of a bloody massacre and leaving no swirls or wipe marks, while leaving the prints and DNA of the third guy. Perpetrators do it all the time in Italy.

Well they do have a lot of magicians over there.

 

[Desert Fox]

Everything in this case is strange Strozzi. The defense was asking for just about everything to be tested and the prosecution was against any possible test. That is backwards from what is common.

Do sometimes see that in US court cases in the name of closure.
I have sympathy but think that the possibility of wrongful conviction is more important.

 

[RWVBWL]

Prove me wrong.

Maresca is the seed of this sad state. He created the bias.

But for John Kercher, he asked publicly Rudy tell the truth now, as they know he is lying too.
But then why doesnt John Kercher ask for the semen stain to be tested?

Is this the semen stain you write of:



JREF2010,
I seriously doubt that Meredith Kercher slept on a cum-encrusted pillow.

If this stain is another unknown male,then they have Rudy and the prosecutions/ISC multiple attacker theory to save their "face/ego".

A prosecution theory
that goes something like this:


Since this was a supposed sex game gone wrong,
I'll ask again, where is the DNA of Rudy, Raffaele or Amanda on Meredith's bra cups?
No one, in this sex game gone wrong, fondled her breasts as she lay on the her bedroom floor
before they tried and removed her bra?
Sure...


Greetings JREF2010,
I agree with your post.
And if any of those unattributed fingerprints found in the apartment
are from a this same male?

If that is a hair strand in Meredith's dying grasp,


it's not from a black man such as Rudy Guede:



Maybe it's from an unknown male that you write of,
or say, Rudy's buddy Hekuran Kokomani...
Wouldn't that be interesting?


Don't ya'all wonder why Koko was wearin' a hoodie and sunglasses inside court?

What was he hiding from?

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php...peculiar_witness_gets_even_more_intreresting/

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2008/09/30/unmasked-kercher-murder-witnesses-flop-in-court/


Where are the photos of Hekuran right around Halloween of 2007?
Did he have wavy light brown or blondish hair?


That wavy hair strand still bothers me,
for a similar 1 was found near Meredith's genitalia.

I'll betcha that it is NOT from Meredith scratchin' her head.
Nor is it from her cootchie...

And I doubt that the wavy hair strand in her upraised hand is from her duvet
that someone placed atop after her rapist orgasim-ed...

Of course, you other folks,
well your thoughts may differ.
Prove me wrong.
You can't...
RW

 

[Desert Fox]

There is no honor among thieves - at least with Rudy Guede
He already blamed two innocent people in an effort to get off.
If he had a co-conspirator, do you really think he would hesitate to point fingers?

 

[Planigale]

There is an interesting quote on another site given by someone called super eight I can not work out if he is pro guilt or not. I have not sourced the quote so cannot speak to its veracity but if true is an admission by Stefanoni that she failed to disclose the crucial negative controls.

On June 3, 2008, Patrizia Stefanoni produced the Report of her “technical analysis” (i.e., laboratory work). On September 25, 2008, she separately provided to the court, in the form of a Bates-stamped collection of printed electropherograms, what she later alleged were “all of the electropherograms relating to the genetic profiles extrapolated from the technical analysis.”

The issue is for the knife the crucial blade sample tested negative for DNA, but was put through amplification and typing and a small amount of DNA was contained in the sample analysed that may have been MK DNA. The negative controls presumably tested negative in quantification. In this instance they should have been processed identically to the sample put through the same number of replication cycles to look for low level contamination with MK DNA. But Stefanoni explicitly says she only provided electropherograms relating to genetic analyses i.e. not the electropherograms of controls.

Now as said I have not identified the original transcript where she said this and the devil will be in the accuracy of translation but if any one recognises this statement I'd be interested in a pointer. I assume it will be somewhere in her testimony of 25 september which a copy is held on Knox's blog site. I do not have time to look now.

 

[JREF2010]

There is no honor among thieves - at least with Rudy Guede
He already blamed two innocent people in an effort to get off.
If he had a co-conspirator, do you really think he would hesitate to point fingers?

My first guess is Rudy did this alone, he didnt have others with him in Milan, and Rudy had no one with him in the bartenders apartment burglary....

but ....

having some friends who served time, I asked one if its common Rudy could have spilt the truth to the prison yard convicts, aka Alessi. And the response was "everyone talks about their crime, in great detail, there's not a lot else to do but talk..." So I often wonder if he spilt a few more Rudy half-truths in the prison-yard confession.

Would Rudy withhold the truth to protect a thief friend/co-murderer? I don't know. There wouldn't be a benefit for Rudy to snitch on anyone due his severe situation and abundance of evidence against him.

The ISC says the other attackers could be no other than AK and RS, but yet they ignore the other Males DNA on the Bra Clasp....really whacko reasoning in this case.

 

[RWVBWL]

There is no honor among thieves - at least with Rudy Guede
He already blamed two innocent people in an effort to get off.
If he had a co-conspirator, do you really think he would hesitate to point fingers?

Hiya DesertFox,
Sure I do...

I grew up in the streets of Venice,
a white boy who could ride his bike thru the Oakwood 'hood,
a ghetto by the sea.

Most of my friends were black or brown.
I don't feel a need to embellish, it is what it was.
Pre Internet, cell phones+cameras, a person could fist fight
or do much more mischevious behaviour and get away with it.

Sometimes,
late at night it was gunshots, screams, tires screetchin', sirens, helicopters...

Surfin' helped keep me outta too much trouble.
I had an interview back in '84 in Surfer Magazine, it's in published print,
I talked of growing' up in Venice, a ghetto-by-the-sea, smokin' pot, screwin' up people. I've mentioned here on The JREF, just to add a different perspective to my postings, so to say, that my 1st girlfriend, my high school sweetie, was a Hispanic gangster. A long haired surfer datin' a hardcore Venice gang chick. From V13, as real as it gets.
And she was soooo fine!...


1 of the worst things a dude can do is be a snitch.

Rudy Guede ain't gonna snitch.
he already got his arse kicked in prison by a coupla Albanians, IIRC.
Friends of Koko?


I know a dude who was under pressure from the cops, as he was busted before for drug dealin', who got his arse kicked hardcore from 1 of the boyz for tryin' to ask too many questions, (err, what the boyz felt was), entrap a fellow DogTown sk8er, into mentionin' his own mis-deeds. The boyz thought he was wired, so he gotta whopping...

This happened before the dude even went to prison for that particular offence that he was busted for.

Ya'all remember the silly photo of Amanda Knox holdin' that machine gun in a museum pic, right?

I've been there, done that, a long ago, waaay before the Internet.
That same dude who got his arse kicked also had some Uzi's back in the late '80's, and there's a photo in 1 of the Calif. surf magazines from waaaay back then with me, RW holdin' 1 of 'em, baseball cap flipped up, a white surfer boy, lookin' hard, hahaha. I'll post it for fun as my avatar someday, too funny.

That dude never busted out his toys, err, guns, after his whopping, and vacation,
he did not wanna upset the status quo, ya might say...


It cracks me up when folks, not too street wise,
only count the times that Rudy Guede was busted, fingerprinted, arrested, jailed, tried in court and convicted for a crime.

Don'cha know that the dude was doin' his ************
for quite awhile before he was busted?

Or was he 1 stupid ****,
busted on his 1st mis-adventure?
You decide...

I gotta get some sleep,
there's a Great White Shark swimmin' around the nearshore waters off Los Angeles that I wanna hang out with and photograph in the mornin', just a few hours from now. See ya.
RW