Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[acbytesla]

I think that in 90% of cases, recording everything helps the prosecution as much as defense. Allows them to look at nuances, catch major inconsistencies, and even help themselves know how to do better in the future.

People, including the police, don't always like change though.

If you have the equipment, doesn't make sense not to record it.

There is no budget or technological reason that the police resist this change. They are making sausage and they know that the people may like how the sausage is made. The reality about many police interrogations is that they use many deceitful tactics to get their suspects to slip up. But it has also been proven that these tactics will often result in false statements and confessions.

 

[Desert Fox]

Your point is?

This is a leading forensic scientist saying it, I would no sooner question his evidence collection protocols than I would question a leading nuclear physicist about nuclear energy or a leading virologist about virii.

He is using it to support a point. . .The point being that the Italian Scientific Police violated horridly scientific procedures.

You can put a lab coat on a creationist, does not make them a scientist.
Can put "scientific" in form of "police" but does not make them so

 

[Bill Williams]

(oh boy)

Yes, yes Bill Williams, Mignini admitted that Italian law required the interrogation to be videotaped. Yes, yes, that's right.

Please do continue.

Once again, thank you so much for allowing this issue to be aired. Here is what Mignini told Drew Griffin in 2010 what he (Mignini) had done in the wee hours of Nov 6, 2007:

And thus her interrogation as a person informed of the facts was suspended by the police in compliance with Article 63 of the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure [c.p.p. - Codice di Procedura Penale], because if evidence appears that incriminates the person, the person being questioned as a person informed of the facts can no longer be heard, and we must stop. “Everyone stop! There must be a defense attorney [present]”.​

On the issue of the taping, Mignini tells Griffin that videotaping is ALWAYS preferable to audiotaping. I will leave it to you to discern if Mignini is sincere in his excuse for not doing as the law requires.

.... as well as for not doing what he himself says is essential when investigating a case.

Look, that’s, I was at the police station, and all the…let’s say…when I made investigations in my own office, I taped them. I taped them, we have an apparatus for that, and I transcribed them. For example, there’s the interrogation of the English girls, Meredith’s friends, it was all taped. The interrogations of Amanda in prison were taped, and then transcribed, and we have the transcripts of… But in a police station, at the very moment of the investigation it isn’t done, not with respect to Amanda or anyone else. Also because, I can tell you, today, even then, but today in particular, we have budget problems, budget problems that are not insignificant, which do not allow us to transcribe. Video is very important…I completely agree with you that videotaping is extremely important....​

Why are you trying to defend Mignini from his awkward lies?

 

[acbytesla]

Climate change is alarmism. Temperatures have not even increased consistently with carbon dioxide. In fact, during the industrial revoluation, CO2 increased dramatically yet temperatures went down. SInce 1998 or so the earth has been cooling yet CO2 emissions have not decreased. If you are going to say global warming is happening, it does help if the earth is warming.

I think you are overstating the percentage of scientists who believe in climate change. Science isn't up to consensus though, all major break throughs in science were developed by scientists who went against the consensus and group think.

It is scary to me that you believe Science is up to a vote by fallible human beings who have believed all kind of incorrect things throughout history and called it Science.

I said getting a DNA profile is not by definition Science. That does not mean there is no skill or expertise to extract a profile. But it is mostly following procedures.

WOW!!! This is so wrong. The truth is that the polar ice caps are melting at an alarming rate leading to a rise in ocean levels. But take this topic elsewhere. I'm sure that there is a thread dealing with Global warming.

 

[js202]

The question is why you are so obsessed with a man already found guilty. His guilty does not mean the other two are innocent.

Wrong again. In fact, his guilty [sic] does mean the other two are innocent.

AK, and especially RS, had no meaningful connection to Guede. Guede was a criminal and a burglar with no rent money at the beginning of November. As he had done at the law offices in Perugia and the elementary school in Milan, he broke into the cottage in search of cash and/or valuables to sell. Meredith Kercher came home whilst his robbery was in progress. She died at Guede's hands, as a consequence of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Tragic, but simple.

AK and RS are not necessary for a theory of the crime which fulfills all of the *credible* evidence. To repeat: Rudy Guede killed Meredith Kercher, by himself, when his simple burglary escalated into sexual assault and murder. End of story.

 

[whoanellie]

The question is why you are so obsessed with a man already found guilty. His guilty does not mean the other two are innocent. This is your strawman premise. Please stop bringing up Rudy. There is no evidence he stabbed her with two different knives. There is no evidence he broke into the house. There is no evidence that he could have held her down by himself with so few defensive wounds to MK.

Poor Rudy.

 

[Vibio]

Add to this is Mignini's admission that Italian law required the interrogation to be videotaped...

(oh boy, oh boy...)

Yes, yes Bill Williams, Mignini admitted that Italian law required the interrogation to be videotaped. Yes, yes, that's right.

Please do continue.

 

[js202]

Poor Rudy.

Yes. Such a victim in all this.

 

[NancyS]

The question is why you are so obsessed with a man already found guilty. His guilty does not mean the other two are innocent. This is your strawman premise. Please stop bringing up Rudy. There is no evidence he stabbed her with two different knives. There is no evidence he broke into the house. There is no evidence that he could have held her down by himself with so few defensive wounds to MK.

How could I forget, Meredith Kercher had the same karate expertise as my 7-year-old niece. A man with a knife can easily overpower and intimidate a small woman into submission - to argue against this is just bizarre and again illustrates your Pro-Guede.

 

[Anode]

(oh boy, oh boy...)

Yes, yes Bill Williams, Mignini admitted that Italian law required the interrogation to be videotaped. Yes, yes, that's right.

Please do continue.

I don't know about the rest of you but I feel these disingenuous replies are growing tiresome. When presented with an argument that you can't defend, feigning excitement and egging someone on with a grin and a wink has no place in a serious discussion, in my opinion. While I welcome the opposing opinion to promote a spirited discussion, pretending to know more than us but never actually revealing that information is not the type of behavior that I'm here for.

Just a thought...

 

[MDDVS]

Two juries rejected your end of story. You are the minority opinion yet you act like it is the majority opinion.

I do think race is an issue here, sadly. We are seeing confirmation bias at its worse.

Are you the same guy (or girl) who said that science is not made by consensus?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

DNA transfers easily

Your point is?

This is a leading forensic scientist saying it, I would no sooner question his evidence collection protocols than I would question a leading nuclear physicist about nuclear energy or a leading virologist about virii.

Lensman,

I am most grateful for your link, because I have been banging the drum about secondary and tertiary DNA transfer in these threads for over four years (and interviewing a few forensic scientists along the way). I was not being critical about the protocols in the article; I was highlighting the contrast between good vs. bad evidence collection and underscoring the importance of good technique. The door knob/knife quote stuck out because of the particulars of this case. Raffaele's DNA was almost certainly on Meredith's door (they may have swabbed the door knob, but I have forgotten).

 

[MDDVS]

Criminal cases are decided by votes. Science is not.

Nice try though.

Not a try, the joke's on you.

 

[Desert Fox]

Two juries rejected your end of story. You are the minority opinion yet you act like it is the majority opinion.

There have been plenty of cases where the were two jury find guilt yet the evidence does not support guilt.

 

[NancyS]

I said I supported him getting life. I don't think he would view that as pro-Guede. You can keep presenting the false choice over and over if you want but it is obvious you do it as a debate trick. Asserting that he had accomplices is not pro-Guede. It is pro truth.

It's minimising his involvement in the crime - and if you are in agreement with the latest prosecution nonsense, I guess you don't even have him holding a knife. Accomplices in this sort of crime is just fantasy, three people that barely know each other would not come together to jointly murder someone - and then for some unknown reason protect each other for the next 7-years, regardless of the personal sacrifice to themselves. It is not believable apart from in the perverted minds of the prosecution - or in the minds of those that formed their opinion by reading the most rabid and innacurate of the tabloid reports.

 

[Desert Fox]

It's minimising his involvement in the crime - and if you are in agreement with the latest prosecution nonsense, I guess you don't even have him holding a knife. Accomplices in this sort of crime is just fantasy, three people that barely know each other would not come together to jointly murder someone - and then for some unknown reason protect each other for the next 7-years, regardless of the personal sacrifice to themselves. It is not believable apart from in the perverted minds of the prosecution - or in the minds of those that formed their opinion by reading the most rabid and innacurate of the tabloid reports.

I think a smoking gun on this argument is simply that Amanda had never called or sent a text to Rudy. Has she ever hesitated to call or text anybody else?

Did she meet with Rudy, "Hey, I don't know you, but do you want to rape and murder my roommate."

 

[NancyS]

There have been plenty of cases where the were two jury find guilt yet the evidence does not support guilt.

And one jury found them completely innocent, which should at least imply reasonable doubt to any rational person

 

[NancyS]

I think a smoking gun on this argument is simply that Amanda had never called or sent a text to Rudy. Has she ever hesitated to call or text anybody else?

Did she meet with Rudy, "Hey, I don't know you, but do you want to rape and murder my roommate."

Her Italian was pretty rubbish at the time, so maybe it was just a big misunderstanding and poor Rudy totally thought Amanda asked him to rape and murder her flatmate, when all she really said was Où est la discothèque?

 

[Desert Fox]

Her Italian was pretty rubbish at the time, so maybe it was just a big misunderstanding and poor Rudy totally thought Amanda asked him to rape and murder her flatmate, when all she really said was Où est la discothèque?

Added "No contact between suspects one with suspects two and three" to my list of evidence of innocence.

 

[NancyS]

There is no evidence of no contact between all 3. Your basis for that is simply they were in college, he was not, they were white, he is black. All three smoked pot and that is a basis for friendship right there.

The basis for this is simply that there is no evidence. And no we don't except made-up evidence from the quagmires of your mind.

This kind of logic would lead to assertions such as Prosecutor Mignini looks a bit sweaty, heroin users often get the 'opiate sweats', therefore the good Prosecutor was frequently shooting up with his good pal Curatolo