psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
There is one possible way: If (say) 50% of your computer use is business related then you can claim 50% of the running costs of your computer including depreciation as a business expense. Even though you would have bought the computer anyway for private use, you get to claim more than the additional running cost of the computer due to business use.
Can you claim all of the depreciation of the computer in this way, or only 50%? I don't know.
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
Only 50% of the depreciation.
I believe that the Amway "uplines" teach (against Amway rules) that you can use your Amway business as some kind of tax haven. Thus many IBO's in the past have been audited by the IRS and basically got hosed. If you google Amway taxes + Peter Reily you will find a Forbes article where Amway IBO's got audited and deductions disallowed. It happens a lot.
Also, you'll notice that the IBO in this thread actually thinks his tax refund is a profit attributable to his Amway business. I wonder where he got that idea?
Likely he was taught that by his upline.
I cannot believe icerat doesn't understand taxes so I have to believe he's drunk on the kool aid.
Arnold Martin
Critical Thinker
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The legitimate Amway business is a cover for the little table at the back of the meeting hall where you could buy a cassette tape for $5.50 cash
Guys like Brit would sell 100,000 of them a month thru his group.
The tape only cost him 50 cents to make leaving $500,000 cash per MONTH !!!
Guys like Brit would sell 100,000 of them a month thru his group.
The tape only cost him 50 cents to make leaving $500,000 cash per MONTH !!!
icerat
Philosopher
(a) Britt was selling them to far more than just his own Amway group, he was selling to other Amway groups as well. It's called entrepreneurship.
(b) they may cost 50 cents to duplicate, but there's a lot more costs involved in creating a product and getting it to market than that.
(c) The average "Founders Diamond" and above in the US makes around $600,000 from just Amway income alone. Britt's Amway business was many many times the size of that in the US and he had multiple such businesses around the world, in other words his Amway business alone generates profits in the multi-millions. That's one hell of a "cover"!
(d) Almost a decade ago Amway implemented quite strict controls on the production, promotion, and sale of these "business support materials" to stop some abuses that were occurring.
icerat
Philosopher
Rules on specifics like this vary quite a lot depending on jurisdiction. Consult a local accountant
Who'd want bad-natured friends?
Yeah, as I mentioned, not a soup person either. I've found them remarkably filling. Around 230 calories, a bit more if I add a few extras, and they very much fill me up. Lost almost 20kg the last 8 months or so, so quite happy with it
Unfortunately, the tapes/cds were promoted as vital to helping you succeed in Amway. They don't.
Amway's own numbers would suggest that these tapes/cds are ineffective.
(.26% of IBO's reach platinum)
Rules on specifics like this vary quite a lot depending on jurisdiction. Consult a local accountant
Always a good idea, plus contact the relevant tax agency.
But again, if you routinely had friends over for dinner before you started a business, and now have the same friends over for dinner after you started a business, especially if there is no change in your expenses, I think that most tax agencies would urge caution and might be inclined to disavow a deduction.
Document everything.
Arnold Martin
Critical Thinker
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Yes ... but when you go to an amway "meeting" it is implied that YOU can make those huge amounts of money too.
That was my point , call it lack of full disclosure or outright lying , it amounts to the same thing.
icerat
Philosopher
So? You can. There are people who started with Amway long after Britt who make more than him. In fact the largest single Amway business in the world (Holly Chen) didn't begin until 1982. Britt had been a Diamond a decade already by then.
If you're talking about the extra income you can get from the speaking circuit or developing training materials. Plenty of people in Britt's own Amway downline started up their own side businesses doing that - so it's available to.
Personally I've never understood this claim. Top Amway Achiever's lifestyles could easily be afforded on their Amway income alone, and to me it's always been obvious that if somebody is selling me something (ie a CD, seminar ticket, whatever) then someone is probably making money from it - so when I read "shock horror they make money selling tools" kind of stuff on the 'net, I'm kind of luck "huh? of course, what did you think?".
That aside, since some people seem to think it's a problem Amway has required disclaimers on the audios for years now which (a) point out people make money selling this stuff and (b) that any "lifestyles depicted" may include income from other sources, including investments, sales of tools etc.
So the "lack of disclosure" claim has been a non-issue for quite a long time now.
Someone "can" but portraying it as common is deceitful. Someone "can start a software company that will beat out Microsoft but it's not likely is it?
It's not available to the rank and file IBO's.
There's documentation that these glorious leaders once lied to their trusted downline and said nobody made money from these tools. Also, unless these folks disclosed their income and expenses to you, you really have no way of knowing what they can afford.
One of the more powerful tools are seminars. Could you describe what kind of disclaimers are made at seminars and/or open meetings?
superfreddy
Muse
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- 828
I think Icerat has you on ignore
I think it's because he's allergic to the truth.
Arnold Martin
Critical Thinker
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blutoski
Penultimate Amazing
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"Power of Postitive Thinking" "The Secret" "Law Of Attraction" "Executive Coaching" "Personal Motivators" &c
Understood.
Fair enough. It was a relatively long book, and she criticized probably twenty or thirty nonfiction authors and about twice that many psychologists, with varying degrees of citation and detail.
Mmm. I don't think it is. I think that's exactly what the 'power of positive thinking' hypothesis states: failure is the consequence of an incorrect attitude.
No, it isn't. It's almost the opposite: it's about insight and this requires connection with reality. Letting go of unreasonable expectations and understanding personal limitations is a very important outcome of cogbeh. (disclaimer: while I was a licensed therapist in the '90s, I did not renew my licensure so am speaking as an experienced layperson at this point)
Right. So. Not sure what's been settled. What I'm saying in my last post was not specifically about her book, except that it was on my list of recommended readings on this topic and appeared consistent with the body of literature. I was mostly objecting to your portrayal of her argument as a 'straw person'
From what I could tell from my education, experience, and subsequent informal literature reviews, she was criticizing the way it's promoted and used by practically everybody involved. She was not misrepresenting their claims to make it easier to criticize them. The popular claims are exactly as exaggerated, unfounded and disproven as she describes.
icerat
Philosopher
I just googled "power of positive thinking" and here's the first two links I read -
Success Consciousness - The Power of Positive Thinking
May Clinic - Positive thinking: Stop negative self-talk to reduce stress
Neither of them reflect the type of magical thinking in things like "The Secret". It's not that "failure is the consequence of an incorrect attitude", it's that incorrect attitude increases the chances of poor behavioural choices which increases the chances of failure.
Funnily enough almost the same situation for me, except in the 90s I worked in behavioural change research rather than practicing as a therapist and after a break of almsot 20years I'm currently working again developing behavioural change interventions. First line from wikipedia's CBT article under description -
Mainstream cognitive behavioral therapy assumes that changing maladaptive thinking leads to change in affect and behavior
It's about changing the way you think - your outlook. I slightly disagree with the wording though, we're past the "assumption" stage.
And that's where I strongly disagree - "practically everybody involved". As just one data point relevant to the thread, with my Amway business I work with a third-party training company that, amongst other things, promotes the benefits of positive thinking and it works with literally hundreds of thousands of people around the world every month. It's the largest such company in the world. It promotes positive thinking but absolutely does not promote the type of "woo" thinking in The Secret (and to a lesser extent NVP's book). It's about changing thinking to positively change behaviours. (as an aside, it may be that consciously changing behaviour is probably the best way to change thinking (attitude) which if pursued then leads to changed behaviours (habits))
So, again, for me she's attacking a caricature that does not reflect the majority of the so-called "movement".