Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[anglolawyer]

With all due respect, my post may be a lot of things but it is nowhere near the definition of diverting the subject by referencing something to do with the person, unrelated to the topic at hand.

It was descriptive. Grinders remarks are nowhere near contemptible or vindictive, but he is constantly trying to make allusions through innuendo, again but making off topic, non-insulting but ad hominem nonetheless remarks.

Remarks do not have to be vile to qualify.

Whatever.

 

[Bill Williams]

Whatever.

The unkindest cut of all. Cutting and pasting from me!!

 

[Samson]

Nell just said

Guede's involvement is a bit of a mystery. If we assume he was somehow tricked into participating without knowing Sollecito and Knox would proceed to kill Meredith then we have to concede that Knox's original plan was far more sinister than we gave her credit for.

This person is an administrator for a site that is scarcely read, but participates in serial bombardment of disqus driven sites.

45 to one likes etc for her followers. The maths is conclusive, why let this echo chamber be just that, when the evidential discussion has moved on quantumly since her and her ilk ruled the media?

 

[Desert Fox]

Nell just said

Guede's involvement is a bit of a mystery. If we assume he was somehow tricked into participating without knowing Sollecito and Knox would proceed to kill Meredith then we have to concede that Knox's original plan was far more sinister than we gave her credit for.
This person is an administrator for a site that is scarcely read, but participates in serial bombardment of disqus driven sites.

45 to one likes etc for her followers. The maths is conclusive, why let this echo chamber be just that, when the evidential discussion has moved on quantumly since her and her ilk ruled the media?

Reads like a bad mystery novel

 

[Samson]

Reads like a bad mystery novel

DF these guys are controlling the game. Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State refused to do anything. John Kerry says if I need to comment I will do my duty. Hillary will be president when Amanda is put on the plane. I know nothing but it looks terrible from where I watch.

The reason I loathe this process is because there is more than enough scientific and intellectual horsepower in your country to intervene and relieve these children of this unconscionable burden.
I am an Americanophile, but rapidly losing the faith.

 

[Desert Fox]

DF these guys are controlling the game. Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State refused to do anything. John Kerry says if I need to comment I will do my duty. Hillary will be president when Amanda is put on the plane. I know nothing but it looks terrible from where I watch.

The reason I loathe this process is because there is more than enough scientific and intellectual horsepower in your country to intervene and relieve these children of this unconscionable burden.
I am an Americanophile, but rapidly losing the faith.

I honestly think that a federal judge will just shake their head when the case comes in front of them. Judges do have a wide latitude to judge how a law is to be looked at.

 

[Samson]

I honestly think that a federal judge will just shake their head when the case comes in front of them. Judges do have a wide latitude to judge how a law is to be looked at.

Hillary Clinton ignored the evidence when the sisterhood should have been turbocharged. What do you say to that?

 

[Desert Fox]

Hillary Clinton ignored the evidence when the sisterhood should have been turbocharged. What do you say to that?

Judge John E. Jones was put in his position by George W. Bush and was recommended by Rick Santorum.
He has now both ruled against intelligent design and now for gay marriage.
Judges can be quite independent of politicians

 

[Samson]

Judge John E. Jones was put in his position by George W. Bush and was recommended by Rick Santorum.
He has now both ruled against intelligent design and now for gay marriage.
Judges can be quite independent of politicians

Intelligent design is precluded by the equations that reverse our universe to a singularity, gay marriage is more curious, as we grew up with an ice cream that was branded Gay Time. Surprisingly I can't buy it right now.

 

[Desert Fox]

Intelligent design is precluded by the equations that reverse our universe to a singularity, gay marriage is more curious, as we grew up with an ice cream that was branded Gay Time. Surprisingly I can't buy it right now.

Whoever is president when (and if) there is a demand for extradition, I plan to write a physical letter to the president and secretary of state (more impact than an e-mail.)

 

[Samson]

Knox Meredith Patrick.
Amanda Kercher Lumumba.

Note the deliberate use of Given names versus Family names

Yes, but we know Knox had little or no intention of going into work anyway, as she'd already texted Meredith earlier that day asking her if she wanted to come out with her that evening. Knox either was not going to go into work that evening anyway, or was willing to skip it in a heartbeat. The fact Patrick canceled it for her, was simply a welcome coincidence for her. In fact, she probably knew in advance that she wouldn't be needed. I'm suspecting that she was told on a previous day that that night would be dead due to the holiday and as such, her services in all probability, wouldn't be required. His text was simply to confirm that that was indeed the case.

15,000 posts since 2008 and this from Michael.

Surely this forum may discuss critically here, when everyone is banned from his discussion. I don't know whether part or all of this is true, but I know that it is worth discussing in an open forum.

 

[Samson]

Whoever is president when (and if) there is a demand for extradition, I plan to write a physical letter to the president and secretary of state (more impact than an e-mail.)

I would too, but I am not a citizen. I will probably take a siesta soon because I can't afford the time any more. I supported Bill Clinton, I even thought that Saddam Hussein was going to be certainly succeeded by his two sons, and that George W was being dutiful to his father's idiocy in not wading into Baghdad in 1991, maybe the biggest foreign policy blunder in American History. Shortly thereafter the Iraqi people would talk freely after 30 years under the yolk of a tyrant. But what will history say? Freedom of speech is prized above everything, and the Iraqi people had zilch under Saddam. But 100,000 lives plus lost. I am not trying to derail the thread. I am far more interested in what America purports to stand for, and at last count, it has nothing to do with what these Italian perverts are possibly going to get away with.

Please tell me it ain't so.

 

[Desert Fox]

I would too, but I am not a citizen. I will probably take a siesta soon because I can't afford the time any more. I supported Bill Clinton, I even thought that Saddam Hussein was going to be certainly succeeded by his two sons, and that George W was being dutiful to his father's idiocy in not wading into Baghdad in 1991, maybe the biggest foreign policy blunder in American History. Shortly thereafter the Iraqi people would talk freely after 30 years under the yolk of a tyrant. But what will history say? Freedom of speech is prized above everything, and the Iraqi people had zilch under Saddam. But 100,000 lives plus lost. I am not trying to derail the thread. I am far more interested in what America purports to stand for, and at last count, it has nothing to do with what these Italian perverts are possibly going to get away with.

Please tell me it ain't so.

I don't have all the answers. . . Sometimes I feel like I have none.
If you think the Iraqi war was the biggest blunder, you really have to read a bit more history. Pol Pot taking over in Cambodia is largely the fault of Nixon.
We could blame Nixon for millions of deaths.
The US could have likely made friends with North Vietnam instead of enemies.

 

[Samson]

I don't have all the answers. . . Sometimes I feel like I have none.
If you think the Iraqi war was the biggest blunder, you really have to read a bit more history. Pol Pot taking over in Cambodia is largely the fault of Nixon.
We could blame Nixon for millions of deaths.
The US could have likely made friends with North Vietnam instead of enemies.

Ok, I have just consulted an expert who says that George H, a veteran, sought to not risk American lives by going to Baghdad in 1991.
My point, with hindsight, is that Saddam was a greater villain then.
I was saying that the blunder was 1991, not 2003, which was a different blunder.
This thread is a critical analysis of Amanda Knox's situation.
America can sensibly resolve this by examining all geopolitical situations, and particularly those that involve this citizen.

 

[JREF2010]

Knox Meredith Patrick.
Amanda Kercher Lumumba.

Note the deliberate use of Given names versus Family names

Yes, but we know Knox had little or no intention of going into work anyway, as she'd already texted Meredith earlier that day asking her if she wanted to come out with her that evening. Knox either was not going to go into work that evening anyway, or was willing to skip it in a heartbeat. The fact Patrick canceled it for her, was simply a welcome coincidence for her. In fact, she probably knew in advance that she wouldn't be needed. I'm suspecting that she was told on a previous day that that night would be dead due to the holiday and as such, her services in all probability, wouldn't be required. His text was simply to confirm that that was indeed the case.

15,000 posts since 2008 and this from Michael.

Surely this forum may discuss critically here, when everyone is banned from his discussion. I don't know whether part or all of this is true, but I know that it is worth discussing in an open forum.

The cell phone calls are known and the call between AK and MK is known and not that night, it was the previous night.

When "forum obsessed experts" incorrectly state things it makes me believe it was intentional most the time. Like the computer experts destroying a hardrive in this case.....then another one.......then another one.....then another one....

or recording everything for hours and hours, then all of a sudden during the inquisition interrogation the recording stops, then starts again after the coerced confession.

this case is amazing in the abundance of effort and information available and equally amazing how the guilters lie about known details or ignore facts.

 

[acbytesla]

DF these guys are controlling the game. Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State refused to do anything. John Kerry says if I need to comment I will do my duty. Hillary will be president when Amanda is put on the plane. I know nothing but it looks terrible from where I watch.

The reason I loathe this process is because there is more than enough scientific and intellectual horsepower in your country to intervene and relieve these children of this unconscionable burden.
I am an Americanophile, but rapidly losing the faith.

Frankly Samson, I think you are misreading Hillary. There really was little that Clinton could do for Amanda while she was Secretary of State. I also don't think she will become President.

I also think you are getting way ahead of yourself. Italy's judicial system is all screwed up, nothing they do surprises me. My gut tells me that they will confirm the guilty verdict, but my gut told me that they would confirm the innocent verdict. There is another part of me that says they will order another review based on how illogical Nencini's decision is.

 

[acbytesla]

Ok, I have just consulted an expert who says that George H, a veteran, sought to not risk American lives by going to Baghdad in 1991.
My point, with hindsight, is that Saddam was a greater villain then.
I was saying that the blunder was 1991, not 2003, which was a different blunder.
This thread is a critical analysis of Amanda Knox's situation.
America can sensibly resolve this by examining all geopolitical situations, and particularly those that involve this citizen.

With all due respect Samson, I think you are making the mistake of being "too involved" with just this one case. They are not going to revise all their affairs with Italy because of just this one case and Italy is not going to do that either. This will much more likely be the exception and not the rule. They will find some loophole that will prevent extradition. It won't change anything as far as relations with Italy and I'm afraid it won't do anything for Raffaele...but then again, they could never do anything for Raffaele.

 

[Desert Fox]

With all due respect Samson, I think you are making the mistake of being "too involved" with just this one case. They are not going to revise all their affairs with Italy because of just this one case and Italy is not going to do that either. This will much more likely be the exception and not the rule. They will find some loophole that will prevent extradition. It won't change anything as far as relations with Italy and I'm afraid it won't do anything for Raffaele...but then again, they could never do anything for Raffaele.

Granted, they were military or CIA related, but the US has already told Italy and Spain "No we will no extradite" with regards to various people.
Spain still buys missiles from the US and we support their aircraft.
Italy I believe also buys plenty of US military hardware.
If it comes to extradition, and we end up writing letters in support of Amanda, probably should write something indicating that she should (as just an American citizen) be protected from unfair prosecution.

With regards to sending physical letters vs e-mails, the president / secretary of state may get flooded with e-mails from pro-guilt but don't see them spending the energy for physical letters.

 

[acbytesla]

Granted, they were military or CIA related, but the US has already told Italy and Spain "No we will no extradite" with regards to various people.
Spain still buys missiles from the US and we support their aircraft.
Italy I believe also buys plenty of US military hardware.
If it comes to extradition, and we end up writing letters in support of Amanda, probably should write something indicating that she should (as just an American citizen) be protected from unfair prosecution.

With regards to sending physical letters vs e-mails, the president / secretary of state may get flooded with e-mails from pro-guilt but don't see them spending the energy for physical letters.

Keep in mind that Amanda Knox is just one person and Meredith wasn't even an Italian citizen. So as much as some people will say "send her back to Italy", the truth is probably 90 plus percent of the Italian people could care less about what happens to Amanda Knox. It also allows them to whine about the US hegemony and policies..where if Amanda was actually sent back they wouldn't be able to do that...(they'd rather whine)

From my perspective, this is all about the Italian judiciary saving face and whether or not Amanda actually is shipped back there has little to do with that.

I agree with the physical letters vs the emails. I sent a lot of personal letters to customers in my sales career. It made an impression. (I'd send emails too...but there is nothing like getting something that people can actually hold.

I'm confident that people will mobilize very quickly if the Italians actually ask that Amanda be extradited. At the moment, they don't see this as real...it's just part of this absurd story that they are now bored with.

Watch and see..

 

[Desert Fox]

Keep in mind that Amanda Knox is just one person and Meredith wasn't even an Italian citizen. So as much as some people will say "send her back to Italy", the truth is probably 90 plus percent of the Italian people could care less about what happens to Amanda Knox. It also allows them to whine about the US hegemony and policies..where if Amanda was actually sent back they wouldn't be able to do that...(they'd rather whine)

From my perspective, this is all about the Italian judiciary saving face and whether or not Amanda actually is shipped back there has little to do with that.

I agree with the physical letters vs the emails. I sent a lot of personal letters to customers in my sales career. It made an impression. (I'd send emails too...but there is nothing like getting something that people can actually hold.

I'm confident that people will mobilize very quickly if the Italians actually ask that Amanda be extradited. At the moment, they don't see this as real...it's just part of this absurd story that they are now bored with.

Watch and see..

I looked and it appears as if the British government has not official position on Amanda Knox. I am just as happy if the UK just stays away from the issue. I am pretty pleased how many UK posters her support her probable innocence.

A large percentage of those who argue guilt, I really think it is a "I hate America" issue. I believe I saw that with a German poster I argued with.

Wish I had known about Jens Söring at the time. Maybe I could have turned around the whole argument using it. Tried to use the strange Phantom of Heilbronn case as an argument on why one has to be careful with DNA evidence.

I consider it the dumb way to save face. The smart way to save face is to mumble something about reasonable doubt while suggesting that AK/RS* is actually guilty but cannot be proven. Make the case go way.

*I don't know if he should be included sometimes because he is the invisible man. Italy does not really care about him and there is nothing that us in the US can do.