Merged Global Warming Discussion II: Heated Conversation

[ABC10]

No knowledge is perfect. There is always an element of uncertainty.

One of the Warmers predications that actually came true would be good instead of their constant Fail in the Crystal Ball game.

 

[macdoc]

Tiresome - you've been shown several - I'm not going to lay it out again for you since you don't bother to read them anyways......set in concrete comes to mind.

Climatologist Who Predicted California Drought 10 Years Ago Says It May Soon Be ‘Even More Dire’
BY JOE ROMM MARCH 7, 2014 AT 12:26 PM UPDATED: MARCH 7, 2014 AT 1:35 PM

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/03/07/3370481/california-drought/

There are dozens of consequences that are unfolding and will unfold.
Now answer the question instead of the constant barrage of nonsense from Faux news pages sound bites.

Does C02 absorb IR?seems you are afraid to answer.

 

[macdoc]

Biggest Loser: Thawing Greenland Competes With Collapsing Antarctic For Fastest Ice Loss
Several new studies underscore scientists’ concerns we’re headed toward a coastline at least this flooded (20 meters or 69 feet) over many hundreds of years:

The worst-case scenario for sea level rise has now become simply the “business-as-usual” scenario, recent studies from NASA make clear. NASA glaciologist Eric Rignot, co-author of a new Greenland study, says that, taken together, the new papers “suggest that the globe’s ice sheets will contribute far more to sea level rise than current projections show.”
That means if we don’t reverse carbon pollution emissions trends ASAP, sea level rise will likely be 4 to 5 feet or more by century’s end. Also, the rate of sea level rise in 2100 could be upwards of 1 inch per YEAR!

No one has any concept of how to adapt cities, ports, infrastructure and the like to such a rate of sea level rise. This underscores the New York Times reporting last week that we are risking “enough sea-level rise that many of the world’s coastal cities would eventually have to be abandoned.”

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/05/20/3439488/biggest-loser-greenland-antarctic-ice-loss/

 

[ABC10]

Tiresome - you've been shown several - I'm not going to lay it out again for you since you don't bother to read them anyways......set in concrete comes to mind.


http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/03/07/3370481/california-drought/

There are dozens of consequences that are unfolding and will unfold.
Now answer the question instead of the constant barrage of nonsense from Faux news pages sound bites.

Does C02 absorb IR?seems you are afraid to answer.

There have been droughts, fires and floods in California, the Southwest and Australia for all 120 years of the "record". Perhaps for thousands and thousands of years. Predicting known events that occur frequently like a drought in California is nonsense and takes no great thinking. I believe the El Nino will be taking care of the drought soon though as they have in the past and will again.
If drought in California is all the warmers got, it is a sad state of their predictions.
We can all Google the CO2 question and regurgitate the answer here as well as anyone. So what?
BTW, I think the temperature in the South Pole and even on the Greenland Ice sheet is still below -0 that is why it is a frozen wasteland. and "melt" a bit when one of those volcanos erupts underneath the ice. Man ain't causing or stopping that.

 

[Trakar]

There have been droughts, fires and floods in California, the Southwest and Australia for all 120 years of the "record". Perhaps for thousands and thousands of years. Predicting known events that occur frequently like a drought in California is nonsense and takes no great thinking. I believe the El Nino will be taking care of the drought soon though as they have in the past and will again.
If drought in California is all the warmers got, it is a sad state of their predictions.
We can all Google the CO2 question and regurgitate the answer here as well as anyone. So what?

If you agree that CO2 absorbs IR, then you acknowledge that human sourced CO2 is the primary forcing agent of the current episode of climate change. So long as this one basic scientific fact is acknowledged, AGW is largely without rational dispute or refutation.

 

[Trakar]

One of the Warmers predications that actually came true would be good instead of their constant Fail in the Crystal Ball game.

You are lying, as you have been provide with extensive lists of such. I, personally posted two such lists myself.

 

[Trakar]

Yup, just what warmers are struggling to do.


Voting makes a difference, or at least should, in theory.

Like all other denialist absurdities, the evidences refute rather than support your assertions.

 

[Corsair 115]

I.E. Politics.

Questions for you to answer: (1) Politics — to what purpose? (2) Politics — which party (if any)? (3) Politics — what is the policy platform? (4) Politics — when was this political movement started? (5) Politics — how is this political movement funded?

I could go on, but that's sufficient for now. It's your claim, so it's up to you to properly define it and explain it. I await with interest such definitions and explanations.

(I note too you've carefully avoided the expanding universe matter from astronomy. Why is that? Might it be because it runs counter to your thesis?)

 

[ABC10]

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/05/20/3439488/biggest-loser-greenland-antarctic-ice-loss/

Anyone who lives on water front property know or should know that someday they will see their house go out with the water. It is the way of the world. IMOO
Even Al Gore's ocean front property. Big Al, where did the hurricanes go?

 

[ABC10]

You are lying, as you have been provide with extensive lists of such. I, personally posted two such lists myself.

Personal insults diminish the discussion and show a definite lack of ideas to advance the debate. What lists? Where?

 

[greybeard]

Anyone who lives on water front property know or should know that someday they will see their house go out with the water. It is the way of the world. IMOO
Even Al Gore's ocean front property. Big Al, where did the hurricanes go?

As you seem to think that whether AGW is a threat hinges on Gore's house purchase then perhaps you will tell us how high above sea level his house is. I'm sure you will have researched this and not just swallowed ridiculous propaganda.

 

[Reality Check]

One of the Warmers predications that actually came true would be good instead of their constant Fail in the Crystal Ball game.

So an argument from a total ignorance of climate science, ABC10 !
And the insanity of "Warmers"!
The stupidity of asking for predictions from the rather deluded warmers should be obvious to you. They are as deluded as the climate change deniers. Warmers and deniers both use similar tactics, e.g. cherry picking papers to support their positions.

A reasonably intelligent person could ask: What are the predictions of climate science that actually came true?
The answer is: So many that it is hard to list all of them !

Start with How reliable are climate models?

While there are uncertainties with climate models, they successfully reproduce the past and have made predictions that have been subsequently confirmed by observations.

 

[Reality Check]

...snipped Al Gore obsession ...

Al Gore is not a climate scientist, ABC10 !
There is An Inconvenient Truth

An Inconvenient Truth is a 2006 Academy Award winning documentary film directed by Davis Guggenheim about former United States Vice President Al Gore's campaign to educate citizens about global warming via a comprehensive slide show that, by his own estimate made in the film, he has given more than a thousand times.

where he presented the valid climate science along with a few errors.
Is Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth accurate?

While there are minor errors in An Inconvenient Truth, the main truths presented - evidence to show mankind is causing global warming and its various impacts is consistent with peer reviewed science.

and since you asked about hurricanes:

What Al got right
...
Hurricanes
The dispute isn't that global warming is causing more hurricanes but that it's increasing their severity and longevity.

What is the link between hurricanes and global warming?

It is unclear whether global warming is increasing hurricane frequency but there is increasing evidence that warming increases hurricane intensity.

And the "water front property" comment is a bit dumb since sea erosion is not sea level rise. An entire nation could become inhabitable if global warming causes enough seal level rise!
Tuvalu

As low-lying islands lacking a surrounding shallow shelf, the communities of Tuvalu are especially susceptible to changes in sea level and undissipated storms.[185][186][187] At its highest, Tuvalu is only 4.6 metres (15 ft) above sea level, and Tuvaluan leaders have been concerned about the effects of rising sea levels for a few years.[188][189] It is estimated that a sea level rise of 20–40 centimetres (8–16 inches) in the next 100 years could make Tuvalu uninhabitable.[181][182]

What's happening to Tuvalu sea level?

Because the coral atoll of Funafati, Tuvalu is densely populated and generally less than 3 metres above sea level, this small island nation in the Pacific is often the subject of intense media speculation about the impact of rising seas. The atoll is likely to begin to be overtopped by the sea sometime between mid to late 21st century, however Tuvaluans have often featured in the mainstream media claiming to be already experiencing the detrimental effects of sea level rise. Scientific studies to support these claims has been have been hard to find, but now a recently published study vindicates what many Tuvaluans have insisted all along - sea level has risen rapidly around Tuvalu.

And forget about an individual water front properties - what about the city of Miami (Why the City of Miami is doomed to drown) and other coastal areas that are being affected by climate change now and in the future, e.g. explore the Third National Climate Assessment.

 

[CapelDodger]

Anyone who lives on water front property know or should know that someday they will see their house go out with the water.

The vast majority of people who live in waterfront poperty never see it washed away. It really isn't that common an event.

It is the way of the world. IMOO

If it was the way of the world people would long since have learned not to build close to the sea - which they very clearly haven't.

Even Al Gore's ocean front property.

I realise that Al Gore strides like a Titan across some US American worldviews, but he's actually just an ex-politician who was beaten to the White House by a chimp. He doesn't matter. Really, he doesn't.

The truly Titanic political figure in the AGW story is, of course, Margaret Thatcher. It was she who brought the subject onto the global stage. Of course it was going to muscle its way on eventually but Thatcher definitely raised the tempo.

That said, how high is Al Gore's ocean-front property? It seems unlikely it's in a vulnerable position, given that he has a realistic view of AGW and clearly isn't a stupid person, but unlikely things do hapen.

 

[CapelDodger]

...snipped Al Gore obsession ...QUOTE]

Whatever Al Gore did to the US when he was Vice President seems to have caused a deep cultural trauma. As a Brit I find it all rather mystifying.

 

[CapelDodger]

I.E. Politics.

No, a concensus opinion. The IPCC is not a policy-making body, it's advisory. It has no opinion, consensus or otherwise, on policies.

 

[Reality Check]

That said, how high is Al Gore's ocean-front property?

Of course the real ignorance in ABC10's "Al Gore's ocean front property" is that Al Gore does not own any ocean front property .
What Al Gore brought was ocean view property: Al Gore Buys $8.9 Million Ocean-view Villa.
and when you go looking for any coherent opinions about this villa, all you find are rants about it being "ocean front" , expensive and not green. What you do not find is the villa's height above seal level. Which is not a surprise since the address was not publicized.

People have guessed at the address from looking at properties that vanished off listings for around the price at the time. One guess is 1504 East Mountain Drive, Montecito CA., 93108 (my emphasis added!) which seems to be at a height of ~500 feet.

 

[DC]

I.E. Politics.

the scientific concencus is politics?
explain.

 

[DC]

One of the Warmers predications that actually came true would be good instead of their constant Fail in the Crystal Ball game.

well Svante Arrhenius predicted in 1896 that the CO2 from burning fossil fuels will enhance the greenhosue effect, and this will lead to warming. and he was right, we measured the enhanced greenhouse effect from the surface and from space.
and indeed we do measure increased global average temperatures.
it is a logical conclusion from the back then newly discovered greenhouse effect and basic chemistry.

in 1938 Guy Callendar predicted the same.

we also have good evidence that at least since the 1960's the dominant forcings are Anthropogenic. And to top that, half of the warming we cause is masked by cooling we cause by aerosols
just because we didn't expect a hiatus in atmospheric warming does not mean the theory is wrong. the theory is spot on. we just have not yet completely figured out how the climate system will react exactly to the enhanced greenhosue effect.
but thanks to people like you we will continue the experiment longer and find it out.
thank you

 

[ABC10]

As you seem to think that whether AGW is a threat hinges on Gore's house purchase then perhaps you will tell us how high above sea level his house is. I'm sure you will have researched this and not just swallowed ridiculous propaganda.

Breach of rule 11 removed.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles

500 feet from the ocean ain't much. What is that? About 0.3 part of a mile?