Why isn't the guillotine used for executions?

ddt said:
Italy - the country where the plant was relocated - would not give an export licence to the US unless the manufacturer could absolutely, dead certain, 100% guarantee that none of the sodium pentothal would end up in prisons for use in executions. They couldn't, and therefore they didn't get the export licence. There are other plants in other European countries that produce sodium pentothal and face the same.

Because of the (possible) use for the death penalty, American thus also suffer that they can't get sodiun pentothal for medical uses.
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My experience with sodium pentothal was for a hip operation many years ago. The anesthesiologist told me to count backwards from 100. I got about halfway through 99.
 
lobosrul said:
I stumbled upon that wiki article some time ago. It was used mainly to make a gruesome spectacle to dissuade soldiers (usually Indian soldiers) to not mutiny or desert. It was however quite hazardous for the executioner. And also probably left one hell of a mess. Also, not always quick and painless:

One wretched fellow slipped from the rope by which he was tied to the guns just before the explosion, and his arm was nearly set on fire. While hanging in his agony under the gun, a sergeant applied a pistol to his head; and three times the cap snapped, the man each time wincing from the expected shot. At last a rifle was fired into the back of his head, and the blood poured out of the nose and mouth like water from a briskly handled pump. This was the most horrible sight of all. I have seen death in all its forms, but never anything to equal this man's end.

Which leads me to suggest: why not use C4 explosives? Put a large amount around the condemned persons head and death would be absolutely instantaneous, and there would be nothing left to bury.
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Why waste explosives? Just use an elephant to crush their heads.

Execution by elephant was a common method of capital punishment in South and Southeast Asia, and particularly in India. Asian elephants were used to crush, dismember, or torture captives in public executions. The animals were trained and versatile, both able to kill victims immediately and to torture them slowly over a prolonged period. Employed by royalty, the elephants were used to signify both the ruler's absolute power and his ability to control wild animals.
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Undesired Walrus said:
Painless, very cheap and without the complications of someone being injected with a cocktail of drugs that can have the side effect of torturing that person to death.
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Oh, boo-hoo for the poor little ole rapist-murderer Clayton Lockett whose lethal injection caused him some pain! Sheesh, do you have any idea what that guy did and why he got the death penalty?

Lockett & Load
http://www.anncoulter.com/

I couldn't care less if such a vicious killer suffered some pain while he was dying. Memo: don't rape and murder people.
 
bobtaftfan said:
Oh, boo-hoo for the poor little ole rapist-murderer Clayton Lockett whose lethal injection caused him some pain! Sheesh, do you have any idea what that guy did and why he got the death penalty?

Lockett & Load
http://www.anncoulter.com/

I couldn't care less if such a vicious killer suffered some pain while he was dying. Memo: don't rape and murder people.
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Or at least don't get convicted of it. After all it seems about 4% of those on death row eventually get found innocent.
 
bobtaftfan said:
Oh, boo-hoo for the poor little ole rapist-murderer Clayton Lockett whose lethal injection caused him some pain! Sheesh, do you have any idea what that guy did and why he got the death penalty?

Lockett & Load
http://www.anncoulter.com/

I couldn't care less if such a vicious killer suffered some pain while he was dying. Memo: don't rape and murder people.
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That's because you're just as much as a psychopath.
 
Mudcat said:
I'm sorry but I never seen a clear argument why that is necessarily so by the anti-death penalty crowd. Sure, there's always the remote chance that an innocent person might get the needle or the chair but it's not like it's a sentence that is handed out lightly.
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How the hell does that make the unwitting execution of innocent people No Big Deal™? :boggled:

Do we really want to be keeping these wastes of space alive when their victims are dead or scared for life?
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How does execution help the dead? And people who suffer PTSD require proper treatment. Their trauma doesn't go away with the life of the person responsible.
 
Ladewig said:
I know you are joking, but consider this approach: disposable blades. The advantage is that they could be sold to people who collect gruesome things - the state might pull in $150,000 per blade.
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Or some sort of iris valve in the thing that hold the neck in place.

Ladewig said:
ETA the other advantage to the guillotine is that, like hanging, it leaves the organs in good condition to transplant.
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Indeed.

thaiboxerken said:
It's the amount of blood spilled, it makes it gruesome. However, I have a solution. Heat up the blade so that it cauterizes the neck after the slice and have a mechanism to hold the head in place so it doesn't roll off after the blade drops....
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Sounds good.

Lowpro said:
As far as the anesthesiologist goes, I'm pretty sure the AMA has taken a stance against any practicing physicians performing for capital punishment but I figured that there must be someone who quantifies and administers the dosage, preps the inmate etc etc. Did not know that you could lose your license though. I wonder who does all that if not a physician of some kind.
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I believe that states still using that regimen have modified their laws to allow prison staff to do the prep, which would otherwise fall foul of laws on unlicensed practice of medicine.

lobosrul said:
Which leads me to suggest: why not use C4 explosives? Put a large amount around the condemned persons head and death would be absolutely instantaneous, and there would be nothing left to bury.
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A length of det cord. In fact you could device a collar that could be remotely detonated so the victim wouldn't anticipate the execution.

shemp said:
Why waste explosives? Just use an elephant to crush their heads.
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Hell no, just think of the animal rights protestors.

bobtaftfan said:
<snippage>
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  1. Citing Ann Coulter = instant fail
  2. What about the >4% of US death role inmates who are cleared?
 
Spindrift said:
They thought accidental death by electrocution was painless? I'd like to see something that backs up that assertion.
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I did not say that accidental death by electrocution was painless.

Instead, I said that at the time (the early 1900's) execution by electrocution was so quick as to be thought as painless.

ETA: And didn't Edison go around demonstrating electrocution by A/C to show how horrifying it was?
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No.

Instead, Edison argued against execution by electrocution because he thought that doing so would scare people away from the newly forming electrical business. Further, the Edison system used lower voltage, and physically safer, DC system as opposed to the higher voltage AC system proposed by Tesla.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
Wasn't there a time when the lethal injection had not been used? Also, how is the pain issue of being guillotined in dispute?
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Actually, execution by lethal injection is fairly new in the USA. I think that it first started showing up about 30 years ago.

Before then it was death by hanging or posion gas that was usually used.

As for the pain involved with beheading, that goes back to the days of the French Revolution where the famous scientist Lovousille (sorry for mangling his name) blinked his eyes several times after he was beheaded in the late 1780's.

Therefore, he was able to show that one remains mentally alert for at least several seconds after the blade drops; consequently, there may be some considerable pain involved as well.
 
angrysoba said:
Actually, I think you are making this stuff up. I don't mind speculation, but please at least label it so instead of writing this out as fact.

You might have a point that the electric chair was first considered by some to be a more humane way of killing, but the actual first use of the electric chair was appealed on the very grounds that it was "cruel and unusual", and furthermore the first execution was botched resulting in the condemned man's skin rupturing and bleeding.

As for the term "cruel and unusual", it is a vague term originating in the English Bill of Rights - meant presumably to outlaw such methods as boiling in oil, or hang-drawn-and-quartering which was once popular on the basis of its cruelty - that has been variously interpreted to cover forms of execution, but also forms of torture, and not only on the grounds of pain but also on grounds of necessity or arbitrariness, and has been judged, and even by the SCOTUS as covering all forms of execution at one time.

However, perhaps you could point us to Supreme Court decisions that have ruled out the guillotine on the basis you mention.
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I would prefer that you read my posts and that you read your own posts before calling me a liar.

All that you are doing is making me angry at someone who unable to realize when he has made a fool of himself.
 
Crossbow said:
I would prefer that you read my posts and that you read your own posts before calling me a liar.
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I've read your posts.
I've read my posts.
I haven't called you a liar.

Crossbow said:
All that you are doing is making me angry at someone who unable to realize when he has made a fool of himself.
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I'm sorry that you are angry.
I haven't made a fool of myself.

Now, could you please explain your justification for the highlighted bit and explain how this was used to show that electrocution was not considered unusual:

Crossbow said:
But at that time (the early 1900's) the electric chair was considered to be far more humane and scientific than the other forms of execution that were being used (hanging and/or shooting). Also, quite a few people had been accidently electrocuted by that time so death by electrocution was not terribly unusual either; as opposed to accidental beheading which is quite rare.
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The highlighted bit is what I consider to be made up speculation. As I said, I think it is fine to speculate or make things up, but you should preface it with some warning that it is "in my opinion" or "I think" rather than stating it as if it was a fact.
 
Just an aside - I'd disagree that DC is less dangerous than AC. If you grab a live DC rail, it can cause your muscles to lock keeping the current flowing through you. An AC rail will tend to throw you away when the cycle reverses. Also it is current that kills, not voltage - otherwise a static shock would almost always be lethal.
 
Crossbow said:
As for the pain involved with beheading, that goes back to the days of the French Revolution where the famous scientist Lovousille (sorry for mangling his name) blinked his eyes several times after he was beheaded in the late 1780's.
Therefore, he was able to show that one remains mentally alert for at least several seconds after the blade drops; consequently, there may be some considerable pain involved as well.
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The highlighted is almost certainly a myth as has been mentioned on this thread already.
 
Crossbow said:
Your question has already been answered.
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I had to look through this thread again to find this "answer". It's certainly true that some answers have been suggested, such as that it is too gory or too French, but there is nothing definitive. There is no reason, in principle, why the guillotine could not be used.
 
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