Pat Robertson: Young Earth Creationism is Wrong

luchog said:
That's not quote accurate.

The Hebrew/Aramaic word "day" - ywm - is very similar to English in that it has a figurative and a literal meaning. In the case of scripture, using it literally in the creation packages is a misreading, as the literary form is not a literal one, and it's used figuratively. The entirety of the early Genesis account is in a poetic literary mode that doesn't really exist in English; and to take it literally expresses a profound ignorance of the nature of the language and literature. This is something that was understood by many early scholars; but is consistently ignored by the anti-intellectual fundamentalist YECs.
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Not a fundamentalist or even a believer in the delusional guy who wondered in the desert without food and water for days who called himself the Son of G-d, however, I do believe in G-d and that we (in spite of the scribbling in texts called either scripture or the bible) do not know what his/her day is now or was then or the role the hand of G-d had in our or the Earth's design. The body of humans and wild life are too functionally perfect to happen by chance. none of us KNOW now and perhaps never will, but it is my opinion only.
 
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Re: "day" meaning 24 hr or unspecified interval of time, see The Fourth Commandment, Exodus 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
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I've never heard anyone dispute how long "six days you should labor" and "seventh day is a sabbath" are in the Fourth Commandment; the interval of time refers unambiguously to a 24hr period of time that make up days on the calendar.

But in the very next sentence, "in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth", now a day is a completely different unit of measure referring to some unspecified millions of years?

Then in next verse, "the Lord blessed the Sabbath (seventh) day", now referring to 24hr period.

So the authors use of "day" refers to completely different, non-interchangeable units of measuresments between each verse?
No, there's no reasonable reading of Genesis where a day (having a "morning" and an "evening") refers to something other than a 24hr period of time, if we are commanded to rest on the same day of the week that God had rested.

Sure, Genesis could be a figurative account of creation where the morals and values of the story are more important than its literally interpreted content, but I think the "day is some unspecified millions of years" reading of Genesis would be totally alien to the authors of the Old Testament.
 
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Dessi said:
Re: "day" meaning 24 hr or unspecified interval of time, see The Fourth Commandment, Exodus 20:
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A few thousand years had passed by that point. It's not really fair to judge the whole work as if it had a single author.

Plus, remember that a week is (kinda sorta) based on observational phenomenon: specifically, the phases of the Moon. Astronomy had particular importance to nearly every ancient culture, so it's unsurprising that they'd use that imagery in poetry and in the rules for their society.

Plus, Catholics/Christians are fairly bad at this sort of thing. Talk to a Catholic (not sure if it works for Christians) about Easter sometime--specifically, ask how long Easter is, and in the same conversation ask about Easter plans. Or, ask them how long Christmass is, and then ask their Christmass plans. Both terms refer to lengthy stretches of time (I believe 50 days for Easter; I forget how long Christmass officially is, but it's several weeks), but even the most devoute Catholic will also use the term to refer to the specific day.
 
Reality Check said:
It is actually fear.
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I don't think it does us any good to tell others what they believe or why they do what they do. If ABC10 says that s/he does it out of respect, until ABC10 demonstrates otherwise that's what we should assume his/her reasoning is.

Also, don't confuse healthy respect for fear. I don't work with breaker boxes, not because I'm afraid of electricity, but because I know that I am not competant to work with that much power and the consequences could be deadly. Similarly, to the believer God exists, and that means having specific attributes. Acting according to their beliefs regarding God's attributes makes as much sense to them--and is every bit as real to them--as me acting according to the attributes of electricity.
 
luchog said:
That's not quote accurate.

The Hebrew/Aramaic word "day" - ywm - is very similar to English in that it has a figurative and a literal meaning.
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Out of curiosity -- why do you transliterate it as "ywm"? I speak Hebrew somewhat, and Hebrew word for "day" is יום, pronounced "yom".
 
Dessi said:
Sure, Genesis could be a figurative account of creation where the morals and values of the story are more important than its literally interpreted content, but I think the "day is some unspecified millions of years" reading of Genesis would be totally alien to the authors of the Old Testament.
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Not true. Again, the Genesis account is a poetic mode; and the 24 hour days of the physical world in the passage you quoted are analogous to God's "days" in the creation period. It's a symbolic association, a literary device common in Hebraic languages that doesn't really have a direct parallel in English; and which would have been fully understood by the intended audience of the scriptures as they were written. This is a common device throughout scripture, particularly in the Old Testament, actions and qualities in this world are made analogous to to an action or quality of the spiritual world. Symbolic representation; not a direct 1:1 correspondence. That sort of symbolic association is the core of Hebraic poetry; and most clearly illustrated in the Psalms.
 
luchog said:
That's not quote accurate.

The Hebrew/Aramaic word "day" - ywm - is very similar to English in that it has a figurative and a literal meaning. In the case of scripture, using it literally in the creation packages is a misreading, as the literary form is not a literal one, and it's used figuratively. The entirety of the early Genesis account is in a poetic literary mode that doesn't really exist in English; and to take it literally expresses a profound ignorance of the nature of the language and literature. This is something that was understood by many early scholars; but is consistently ignored by the anti-intellectual fundamentalist YECs.
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Do you agree/disagree/hate my dog/or what?
 
Dinwar said:
I don't think it does us any good to tell others what they believe or why they do what they do. If ABC10 says that s/he does it out of respect, until ABC10 demonstrates otherwise that's what we should assume his/her reasoning is.

Also, don't confuse healthy respect for fear. I don't work with breaker boxes, not because I'm afraid of electricity, but because I know that I am not competant to work with that much power and the consequences could be deadly. Similarly, to the believer God exists, and that means having specific attributes. Acting according to their beliefs regarding God's attributes makes as much sense to them--and is every bit as real to them--as me acting according to the attributes of electricity.
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That would be br__k_r b_x_s. Show some respect.
 
luchog said:
The Hebrew/Aramaic word "day" - ywm - is very similar to English in that it has a figurative and a literal meaning.
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Many YECs believe that the English version is normative and guiding, and that other languages are irrelevant in interpreting the Bible. Thus, your point—while relevant to any sane person—is utterly irrelevant to that crowd. The KJV says "day", not "יום", so day is what God meant!
 
EHocking said:
But since we/they are NOT functionally perfect your belief in intelligent design does not seem to be supported at all by the "evidence" you have based it on.
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I don't do intelligent design. None of us know and probably never will. We're all speculating. I don't even do the delusional guy who claimed to be the Son of G-d, but having an overpowering faith in the G-d of the Universe. I think we are amazingly functional. What's with the nasty????
 
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ABC10 said:
I don't do intelligent design. None of us know and probably never will. We're all speculating.
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So what did you mean by this statement if not extolling a belief in ID?

the role the hand of G-d had in our or the Earth's design. The body of humans and wild life are too functionally perfect to happen by chance...
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I read it as you saying that god had a role in the design of earth and all the creatures on it. "Proof" being our "functional perfection".
What is this if not argument for ID?
 
EHocking said:
So what did you mean by this statement if not extolling a belief in ID?

the role the hand of G-d had in our or the Earth's design. The body of humans and wild life are too functionally perfect to happen by chance...
​
I read it as you saying that god had a role in the design of earth and all the creatures on it. "Proof" being our "functional perfection".
What is this if not argument for ID?
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I eagerly aware the answer!
 
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