Split Thread Scorpion's Spiritualism

[SusanB-M1]

PixyMisa

Very interesting as always. I wish I could commit it all to memory!

 

[Scorpion]

Descartes and his fellow early modern dualist philosophers were surely aware of, but failed to adequately address, the fatal problem with dualism - that of interaction; how thinking substance (the immaterial) can affect extended corporeal substance (the material).

Theosophy teaches that the spirit can interact with the body because it is channeled down through the etheric counterpart ( a sheath of energy between the higher and physical bodies), and the chakras. (energy centers in the etheric body)

 

[Daylightstar]

I will allow Sri Ramakrishna to answer that.........

You should always discriminate between the real and the unreal. God alone is real, the Eternal Substance; all else is unreal, that is impermanent. By discriminating thus, one should shake off impermanent objects from the mind.

Okay, so then, according to Sri Ramakrishna, your

.... latent senses of the higher bodies of people who are psychically sensitive.

are an illusion.

Do you agree with Sri Ramakrishna?

 

[dlorde]

Matter is just energy formed into atomic particles by the laws of physics.

Therefore matter is an illusion.

That's a complete non-sequitur. Your misunderstanding of the relationship between matter and energy doesn't help at all (hint: energy isn't stuff). But it does put me in mind of Dr. Johnson's response to Bishop Berkeley's idealism.

I suppose that, knowing matter is an illusion, you'd happily step into traffic, safe in the knowledge that the cars, trucks, buses, etc. are all illusory?

 

[Scorpion]

I will forgive the non sequitur.

Some 30+ years ago, when I was but a teenager, I too bought the New Age baloney, so I have some sympathy for the dog pile you have invoked upon yourself.

Make no mistake, a dog pile it is, but it is justified.

Most who reached adulthood did. Yet some did not. For many reasons. For some, it was peer pressure, like the WBC loons. For others it was greed, like L.Ron. For others it was gullibility, like the watchtower outfit. For others it was a lack of control over their own lives, like UFO abductees. Bigfoot, area 51, ghosts, dowsing, alien intervention, HAARP, 9/11, benghazi, RFID, NWO, Chemtrails, Apollo hoaxery, LEO hoaxery, Sandy Hook hoaxery, Boston bombing hoaxery, Iraq hoaxery, Iran hoaxery, Crimea hoaxery, financial hoaxery, Tunguska hoaxery and so forth, the list is endless. Given that you buy all of that bovine excrement, surely I can declare that YOU are a hoax. It seems clear that you require no evidence, and that you believe the entire world is a hoax.

Do YOU believe any or all of these, and if not, why not? And if so, why so?

Thats a long list, and I reject pretty well all of it, in fact you can add the divine light mission, and the Japanese Buddhism cult and Islam to the list of things I reject. I have had experience of them and found them wanting.

But I cannot entirely reject the teachings of Jesus, or the Buddha as I think they were great spiritual masters.

 

[Scorpion]

Do you agree with Sri Ramakrishna?

I think he is right, and only God exists, we are all a part of God so we exist in as much as we are part of him. We are like drops in the ocean which is God, or sparks from the fire which is God. Our separate selves are an illusion, even on the higher planes of existence.

 

[dlorde]

Theosophy teaches that the spirit can interact with the body because it is channeled down through the etheric counterpart ( a sheath of energy between the higher and physical bodies), and the chakras. (energy centers in the etheric body)

Theosophy may teach whatever nonsense it likes, but as no part of that 'explanation' has been shown to exist (except the physical body), and the best evidence we have indicates it doesn't and can't exist (see the video Pixy linked to), it doesn't answer the question; either it's physical and can affect the physical, and we can therefore detect and measure it; or it's not physical and can't affect the physical because it isn't physical. You can't have it both ways.

This cartoon explains it another way: Then A Miracle Occurs.

 

[Scorpion]

Theosophy may teach whatever nonsense it likes, but as no part of that 'explanation' has been shown to exist (except the physical body), and the best evidence we have indicates it doesn't and can't exist (see the video Pixy linked to), it doesn't answer the question; either it's physical and can affect the physical, and we can therefore detect and measure it; or it's not physical and can't affect the physical because it isn't physical. You can't have it both ways.

This cartoon explains it another way: Then A Miracle Occurs.

So thought is a physical thing is it?

 

[Daylightstar]

I think he is right, and only God exists, we are all a part of God so we exist in as much as we are part of him. We are like drops in the ocean which is God, or sparks from the fire which is God. Our separate selves are an illusion, even on the higher planes of existence.

Right, so your "latent senses of the higher bodies of people who are psychically sensitive." are not real.

 

[dlorde]

I think he is right, and only God exists, we are all a part of God so we exist in as much as we are part of him. We are like drops in the ocean which is God, or sparks from the fire which is God. Our separate selves are an illusion, even on the higher planes of existence.

This sounds rather like Berkeley's idealism, and veers dangerously close to solipsism + God; but it's really the ultimate form of Special Pleading - you don't have to demonstrate or explain anything because it's all illusory. Using this wheeze, you can claim anything you like without fear of contradiction, and so it's pointless discussing it.
[/thread]

 

[Daylightstar]

So thought is a physical thing is it?

Thought is a physical process and can affect the physical through physical means.
(It can't do it any other way)

 

[Daylightstar]

This sounds rather like Berkeley's idealism, and veers dangerously close to solipsism + God; but it's really the ultimate form of Special Pleading - you don't have to demonstrate or explain anything because it's all illusory. Using this wheeze, you can claim anything you like without fear of contradiction, and so it's pointless discussing it.
[/thread]

Even though he argues that his god can not be shown to exist. Then that everything is god which means nothing can be shown to exist.

 

[dlorde]

So thought is a physical thing is it?

Yes, it's a physical activity. Thought is 'the action or process of thinking'. Actions and processes are physical things. Thinking is a physical activity of the brain just as running is a physical activity of legs. When the physical activity of the brain changes in specific ways, thinking changes in correspondingly specific ways; when the physical activity of the brain stops, thinking stops.

 

[abaddon]

Thats a long list, and I reject pretty well all of it, in fact you can add the divine light mission, and the Japanese Buddhism cult and Islam to the list of things I reject. I have had experience of them and found them wanting.

But I cannot entirely reject the teachings of Jesus, or the Buddha as I think they were great spiritual masters.

You reject all of it? On what basis? You have nothing more than "I don't like it".

And now you conflate jebus and buddha? For petes sake. Why not conflate Thor and Vishnu, while your at it.

 

[abaddon]

So thought is a physical thing is it?

Yes.

Thought is an emergent property of the structure of the human brain.

Bleevers refuse to acknowledge emergence, since they realise that it torpedoes their faux beliefs, even though it can be trivially demonstrated.

 

[turingtest]

If there is a spirit world, clearly consciousness is not from the brain, because the brain is a part of the body, and dies with it. I subscribe to the conclusion of Descartes which is, we are the ghost in the machine.

(My highlight) You really don't see the problem here? You're using a hypothetical as a premise to support a conclusion which is, interestingly, the same as the premise.

Theosophy teaches that the spirit can interact with the body because it is channeled down through the etheric counterpart ( a sheath of energy between the higher and physical bodies), and the chakras. (energy centers in the etheric body)

Great- theosophy teaches a bunch of things they have no evidence for to explain other things they have no evidence for. How useful. These circles just go round and round, don't they?

 

[Donn]

Point out little flaws like how he builds on hypotheticals and you'll get the "don't sweat the small stuff" talk, in which you are told that the only goal is to trust all the higher-ups and keep progressing.

Details and contradictions and fallacies and ignorance be damned.

 

[Scorpion]

Yes.

Thought is an emergent property of the structure of the human brain.

it can be trivially demonstrated.

Would you like to elaborate on how you could perform a trivial demonstration of thought being an emergent property of the brain.

As far as I can see if thought were controlled by chemicals and electrical signals we would be as limited as a computer, and not have free thought.
We would just obey a program of instincts.

 

[Donn]

Thoughts are not free, reality has rules and limits. There is no real freeness to your will. Your horror at this notion does not make etheric bodies and higher planes real.

 

[Scorpion]

Thoughts are not free, reality has rules and limits. There is no real freeness to your will. Your horror at this notion does not make etheric bodies and higher planes real.

My thoughts are free enough to disagree with you, and I have yet to have reality defined to my satisfaction. Passing off reality as stuff that exists is just skipping over the issue.