Gay Hating GOPer is...

There's one huge reason for dress up that jumps out:
"I look fabulous!"
 
bobtaftfan said:
Just because someone thinks that marriage should be reserved for men and women does not mean they "hate" gays.
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In the same way that someone can think marriage should be reserved for those of the same race does not mean they "hate" other races?
 
Dessi said:
I think you got the motive all wrong ;) Drag performers dress up to give a good show, not necessarily to attract a partner.
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I told you I didn't understand it.

Then again, what about drag non-performers?

There was a diner in a place where I lived before that was well-known as a hangout for drag queens after the bars closed. I went there once at that time. They weren't performing, and, I'll admit my naivete, I couldn't tell who they were aside from guessing.
 
Dessi said:
I honestly don't know much about the crossdressing community, I'm not sure why some gay men like to perform comedy or fashion shows in drag. My impression from the drag performers I've met suggests they just love being sparkly and fabulous, or just satirizing / giving the finger to social norms.

One friend in particular is entirely too attractive whether presenting in butch or femme mode, and wants to become one of those androgynous male models people rave about. I don't know what this person's gender identity is, but they certainly don't come across as male, despite using and preferring male pronouns. I've known several people with similar manners of dress and behavior, so I hypothesize that drag performance could be a creative outlet for people whose gender identity isn't well-defined.
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I think that's a very solid hypothesis. It makes a lot of sense.

pgwenthold said:
I told you I didn't understand it.

Then again, what about drag non-performers?.
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I think Dessi pretty much covered that under the "give the finger to the social norm" aspect. Their way of saying, "You say we're different, well, here you go."
 
pgwenthold said:
I told you I didn't understand it.

Then again, what about drag non-performers?

There was a diner in a place where I lived before that was well-known as a hangout for drag queens after the bars closed. I went there once at that time. They weren't performing, and, I'll admit my naivete, I couldn't tell who they were aside from guessing.
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I'll admit to also knowing little about the community, but my guess would be they just like it. Aren't most people's fashion choices based mostly on what they like to wear?
 
elbe said:
I'll admit to also knowing little about the community, but my guess would be they just like it. Aren't most people's fashion choices based mostly on what they like to wear?
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Well, I can't agree with this in it's entirety. I think there are some people that wear the dog collars, chains, and stuff just for the shock value. They like the attention, people turning their heads, whether in disgust or admiration.
 
At least in the UK there is a long traditional of "artists in drag" whether that is performing Shakespeare's plays or Les Dawson as Ada. Much of that is not or was not explicitly (often not even implicitly) associated with homosexuality.

Therefore at least for the UK any hypothesis of why it is prevalent in a specific community has to take into account its prevalence throughout society and culture.

As far as I am aware the prevalence in the "homosexual community" has greatly reduced over the last few decades.

The "hypothesis" that has often been banded around (in the UK) is that it enabled the use of risky innuendos, rowdy acts and some sexualised behaviour that would not have been tolerated if it was blatantly performed as between two men (remember this is in the time of homosexuality being illegal and considered an illness to be cured). As society changed and it was no longer a crime and so on the appeal of such acts diminished - and now surviving as mostly comedic acts (for whatever reason the Brits have always found it funny to have men dressed as women and women dressed as men.... make of that what you will!)
 
elbe said:
I'll admit to also knowing little about the community, but my guess would be they just like it. Aren't most people's fashion choices based mostly on what they like to wear?
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Yeah, but then why should that be more common in the gay community? What is it about being a gay guy that makes you more likely to like dressing up like a woman? That's where I consider the "they just like it" explanation to be lacking.

And in the end, it's not that I care. Hey, if that's what you like, do it. I just find it an interesting phenomenon.

ETA: the performer part does make sense. If you are going to be singing Judy, you wanna look like her, too. I can't blame ya on that one. And it's true, songs like "It's Raining Men" aren't often coming from male performers.
 
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bobtaftfan said:
Oh, so opposing gay marriage makes one guilty of "gay hating"?
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Yes, yes it does, just because you are too self deluted or too much of a coward to own it, doesnt change the fact that you are a biggot when the only reason you have for it is the delusional belief in an imaginary boogey man created by a bunch of illiterate sheep hearders some 3000 years or so ago.

So if I don't think teens should be allowed to drive, does that mean I "hate" teens?
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No, because there are legitimate reasons that are backed by imperical data that supports these restrictions and decisions unlike your hate for gays.

If don't think women should be allowed to serve in combat units, does that mean I "hate" women?
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i dont know enough about this subject to know wether there are legit reasons for preventing this. Only thing i can think of is that the rate of sexual abuse and torture would obviously, given the rampant abuse by friendly troops on women serrving, would go sky high.


Just because someone thinks that marriage should be reserved for men and women does not mean they "hate" gays. In fact, those who are really being hateful are those who label people as "haters" just because they don't agree with gay marriage.
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and this bit confirms your biggotry, because trying to equivicate irrational bigotry with pointing out one irrational bigotry does not equate. And is generally the last ditch effort of the bigot to try to justify his hate.
 
Unabogie said:
Yes. Because unlike opposing teenage drivers, there's absolutely no reason to oppose gay marriage besides bigotry. After all, teen drivers get in more accidents, which could harm others. Gay people getting married harms no one, yet you're against it. So yeah, hate is the right word. Why not own it?
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When the president was against gay marriage did you feel hate was the reason?
 
pgwenthold said:
Yeah, but then why should that be more common in the gay community? What is it about being a gay guy that makes you more likely to like dressing up like a woman? That's where I consider the "they just like it" explanation to be lacking.

And in the end, it's not that I care. Hey, if that's what you like, do it. I just find it an interesting phenomenon.

ETA: the performer part does make sense. If you are going to be singing Judy, you wanna look like her, too. I can't blame ya on that one. And it's true, songs like "It's Raining Men" aren't often coming from male performers.
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Because coming out as gay is a very big violation of societal gender norms and it makes violating others easier.

While I was never interested in dressing as a female (with the exception of one extremely drunken Carnival), after I came out, I found it much easier to accept and openly express parts of my personality that are stereotypical feminine. I imagine it would be the same for men who are transvestites.

To put it another way, gay men are not more likely to want to dress as women than straight men, but having already broken the gender norm of homosexuality, it becomes easier for those who so desire to break another gender norm and openly cross dress.
 
eeyore1954 said:
When the president was against gay marriage did you feel hate was the reason?
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I felt politics was the reason. I think he was always pro-equality, but wanted to run on a Reagan-esque sorta cross-party platform, which meant in order to satisfy conservatives, he had to go pro-hate. As time went on, he 'evolved' into what I think he always felt. It's pure politics.
 
^I think it's normal and acceptable to be cautious about making a societal change when the idea if first being floated. People want to hear arguments, consider ramifications. At this point enough time has elapsed in the marriage equality debate for people to get their footing, see what other countries are doing, adjust to a new idea. Support keeps growing as more people go through this process and come to the conclusion that it's only fair.

Those who are still holding out basically only have "GOD" and "eww" as arguments. They now face being, once again, on the losing side of history.
 
eeyore1954 said:
When the president was against gay marriage did you feel hate was the reason?
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No, I felt that was political. He was attempting to skirt the edge of acceptable support for gay unions. Note that he opposed Prop 8 and supported an end to DOMA, gays in the military, and civil unions during the same time period. Not admirable, I agree, but not based on hate. People who still oppose gay marriage now that it's OK for a politician to support it? Yep. Hate.
 
bobtaftfan said:
Oh, so opposing gay marriage makes one guilty of "gay hating"? So if I don't think teens should be allowed to drive, does that mean I "hate" teens? If don't think women should be allowed to serve in combat units, does that mean I "hate" women?

Just because someone thinks that marriage should be reserved for men and women does not mean they "hate" gays. In fact, those who are really being hateful are those who label people as "haters" just because they don't agree with gay marriage.
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There is a difference between holding a point of view, and actively trying to restrict the rights of others because of your point of view.

To pretend that only the former is what people find offensive is rather dishonest since we all know it's actually the latter that is truly offensive.

eeyore1954 said:
When the president was against gay marriage did you feel hate was the reason?
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What legislation did Obama initiate or support based on his personal opposition to gay marriage?
 
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