Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Desert Fox]

My understanding is the conviction isn't final until it has been confirmed at the final level, the Italian Supreme Court of Cassation. But the fact that he is not being held in custody, only having his passport taken away, as others have noted in legal blogs, is a marked change from how he was originally treated. and may be an indication that the case is indeed headed for dismissal.

If I had somebody who was a convicted rapist and murder, I certainly would not want them wandering the streets of I could help it even if there were appeals to run.

 

[Desert Fox]

It doesn't matter, but it did not happen. Whether it matters or not, it did not happen.

This was one of the earliest proofs presented to me that Amanda Knox was a killer. I thought like you, "What does it matter?" But it was presented to me as if it were ME doing something wrong - "How does it feel to be supporting a little slut who'd had sex on a train?"

My temptation would be to ask "Are you jealous?"

 

[acbytesla]

That image has already accomplished what it was meant to accomplish.

What was it meant to accomplish? Sell advertising? If that is what you mean, I agree. Otherwise, I don't think it really accomplished anything other than to get the guilters frothing at the mouth.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

As I recently said, the PGP are bears of little brain. Why are they so excited about this ridiculous shot of 'Amanda' when the case against her is supposedly so overwhelming and it doesn't actually fit anyway? (she is heading away from the apartment) not that they worry much about stuff not fitting. If I were as convinced of her guilt as they are I would be dismissing this picture as an irrelevant side-show. The fact they have latched onto it suggests surprising desperation right after Nonsencini gave them what they want. Or did he?

I think on some level some of the pro-guilt community do realise that none of them have a coherent story about how the hell the supposed three-way crime took place, not even their cult leaders, and that the pro-innocence side has a formidable array both of logical arguments and properly credentialed experts working in their respective areas of expertise.

I think they were hoping for some logical or evidentiary breakthrough from Nencini which they could rub our noses in, some narrative that would make sense of their jumbled collection of memes and solve all those pesky timing problems at a stroke. Or perhaps they dreamed of some amazing new piece of evidence that would thoroughly break Knox and Sollecito's alibis.

Instead they got a legal victory, but one that was so utterly nonsensical that even the smarter pro-guilt speakers would never have tried to sell it a year ago.

It also rather badly undercuts the pose some pro-guilt posters try to adopt where they say "I have no opinion, tum tee tum, let's wait to see what the very learned and wise men of the Italian judiciary say, their opinion is all that matters". We've heard their opinion and it's full of nonsense which even the pro-guilt posters had moved beyond ages ago. So what now? Even the pro-guilt community have to admit Nencini got it badly wrong, even if they still think Knox is guilty, which means they have to admit the conviction was unsafe (to put it mildly).

 

[acbytesla]

I think on some level some of the pro-guilt community do realise that none of them have a coherent story about how the hell the supposed three-way crime took place, not even their cult leaders, and that the pro-innocence side has a formidable array both of logical arguments and properly credentialed experts working in their respective areas of expertise.

I think they were hoping for some logical or evidentiary breakthrough from Nencini which they could rub our noses in, some narrative that would make sense of their jumbled collection of memes and solve all those pesky timing problems at a stroke. Or perhaps they dreamed of some amazing new piece of evidence that would thoroughly break Knox and Sollecito's alibis.

Instead they got a legal victory, but one that was so utterly nonsensical that even the smarter pro-guilt speakers would never have tried to sell it a year ago.

It also rather badly undercuts the pose some pro-guilt posters try to adopt where they say "I have no opinion, tum tee tum, let's wait to see what the very learned and wise men of the Italian judiciary say, their opinion is all that matters". We've heard their opinion and it's full of nonsense which even the pro-guilt posters had moved beyond ages ago. So what now? Even the pro-guilt community have to admit Nencini got it badly wrong, even if they still think Knox is guilty, which means they have to admit the conviction was unsafe (to put it mildly).

I think you are right on. How else do you explain the guilters jumping for joy on this fuzzy image from the car park?

I'm really amazed at the excitement of the so called "new CCTV image". Does anyone in their right mind think that this image is "NEW" and that the authorities haven't known about this image since the beginning? It's not like it is from a new camera. No, it is from the same camera that showed Meredith approaching the cottage gate on the night of the murder and the same one showing the postal police arriving the next day!!!

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. That they have a brain and they use it. But after watching all that has happened in this case and some of the guilter arguments, I'm not so sure.

The truth is that it is impossible to come up with plausible theory of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito being involved in this murder if you look at the evidence, or should I say the lack of it. Pretty much everyone knew that Nencini would end up writing a bizarre motivation. Hell, that was clear in the Florence trial when the prosecutor suggested this was about Rudy's poop.

We all new that this would be nonsense and nonsense it is.

I find the lack of motive to be very convincing when it is combined with the incredibly weak evidence. I know, to Grinder and the guilters, motive is not necessary. I just don't buy that argument. If there was a true "mountain of evidence", I might agree. It's not like one person with no evidence of criminal behavior committed this crime, the guilt theory is that three people just flipped a psychotic switch and killed a girl for no good reason.

 

[kwill]

More celebrating by PGP that the busted alibi is big news in Seattle

Um, what? I'm in Seattle. Big news here is: $15 minimum wage, stuck Bertha, NFL draft, Sounders winning, Mariners, rain, Boeing moving a bunch of engineer jobs to SC, Amazon building spree in South Lake Union, rising housing costs, etc.

There is no focus whatsoever on this case, and certainly none on a phony old screen shot from a video.

These PGP people are seriously in need of therapy.

 

[Planigale]

Hi JS202,
Thanks for reading my posts,
I try to ad my 2 cents to the discussion, coming from a different point of view.
Back when I 1st started really digging into trying to understand this brutal murder, I read a lot of Perugia Shocks early posts, and the comments too.

As we just learned a few different bits of new info from an overlooked source, The Spanish Erasmus students, I also recall reading in PS comments from a gal from New Zealand, her moniker was Oceania or something like this.

Like the Spanish,
her son was in Perugia studying when Meredith was murdered. She made mention a few times, IIRC, that there was 1 particular dude that her son mentioned Rudy hanging out with, a very scary, mean type of guy.

I've always wondered of this guy.
Who was he, did he play any part whatsoever in Meredith's murder, which the Italian legal system believes was caused by more than 1 individual.

Rudy makes mention off seeing a drug dealer in Meredith's driveway when he went there. Why? What purpose does it serve?

What if Meredith had to walk by a car parked in her driveway entrance?
Rudy was already in her house, and this person ran up and attacked her in the dark as she entered or re-entered her home? Not stabbed her, but grabbed her and took her inside?

There was an old post on LMT's website, with a linked YouTube video, of a foreign gal in Perugia that was followed and then mugged and stabbed with a knife as she entered her flat, in daylight, I seem to remember. I posted a link to it here years ago, I think Mary H. and some other long time posters might remember this. I've been looking for it on YouTube, no luck so far, but it did help me to further understand the drug problems in Perugia.

I'd like to read more about Rudy from the students who interacted with him. The person Oceana's son mentioned has always remained an unknown entity. Rudy must have had a best friend. Was it this guy? Alex, Giacomo, Hekuran? Didn't Kokomani say that Rudy offered him 300E to borrow, err rent his car?

It would be interesting if some more info from Perugia's students came up.
They might know more about Guede than the police did...
RW

I took this from a translation of Nencini on AK web site.

"confirmation of the criminal responsibility of the defendants of the crime ascribed to them can be reached only if there is no reasonably reliable explanation other than the theory that emerged in the investigation of their personal involvement in the crime. doubt over the significance of the circumstantial evidence that would justify an acquittal of the defendants must be reasonable, and not just a hypothesis unsupported by any objective evidence. the truth that emerges from the probative picture must be ascertained with exclusion of any reasonable explanation of the means of their cause that is different than the involvement of the defendants."

Essentially it seems to imply that the defence have not only to argue that the evidence against their clients does not prove the case beyond reasonable doubt, but they have to prove an alternative case. Since the ISC had said that it was a given that Guede did not act alone, the argument for Guede acting alone would seem excluded and since there was no evidence of other participants (as they weren't any), the requirement for the defence to prove an alternate case is impossible.

Fingerprints and male DNA of an unknown person(s) were found in the apartment. I think the defence should have run an argument that there was a second person who was involved in the crime. This would have met the requirements of the ISC. A second person might have known of Guede's history of burglary and so have reason to stage a break in. (Again I do not believe the break in was staged, but since the court believes it was it provides an alternate explanation, currently the staging is the core of the argument for Knox's involvement.)

FWIW I do not think that it should be necessary for the defence to 'solve' the crime to prove their clients innocent, but this does seem to be the way of the I Italian system.

I also note Nencini has a problem with his motivation (although he covers himself by noting no motivation is necessary), Guede, Knox and Sollecito were all found innocent of theft of the €300, this is a judicial fact, so the ISC may be unhappy with this being used as a motive.

Although there seem to be various attempts at tying Guede into drug dealing, the evidence for his involvement in theft seems greater. It does appear that the boys down stairs and in particular Meredith's boyfriend were more into drugs. Filomena seems to get some cannabis from him. If I was being wicked I would wonder whether the sugar she kept on about getting from downstairs was an allusion to anything else.

 

[anglolawyer]

Planigale

I agree with you. I think every Italian judicial statement of principle should be presumed to be wrong unless there is objective evidence to the contrary. To quote Nonsencini again:

"confirmation of the criminal responsibility of the defendants of the crime ascribed to them can be reached only if there is no reasonably reliable explanation other than the theory that emerged in the investigation of their personal involvement in the crime. doubt over the significance of the circumstantial evidence that would justify an acquittal of the defendants must be reasonable, and not just a hypothesis unsupported by any objective evidence. the truth that emerges from the probative picture must be ascertained with exclusion of any reasonable explanation of the means of their cause that is different than the involvement of the defendants."

The highlighted part is the problem. Why does the defendant need to gather objective evidence to support a hypothesis of innocence? Is there a difference between a 'hypothesis of innocence' and a 'reasonable explanation ... that is different than the involvement of the defendants'? What is it?

 

[JREF2010]

Um, what? I'm in Seattle. Big news here is: $15 minimum wage, stuck Bertha, NFL draft, Sounders winning, Mariners, rain, Boeing moving a bunch of engineer jobs to SC, Amazon building spree in South Lake Union, rising housing costs, etc.

There is no focus whatsoever on this case, and certainly none on a phony old screen shot from a video.

These PGP people are seriously in need of therapy.

I agree no one I'm around even mentions the case.

But I do follow it and am surprised at all the news feeds with the cctv article.
It's always bad news and shock they want, the Amanda rides her bicycle articles dont take. But this is true for anything, news is mostly Bad News and thats another topic. Thats the News biz.....a good shocking headline is what they need. "Alibi Broken!!"

I noticed in Candace Dempseys book, Murder in Italy, she mentions the cctv and a comment whythey never made the first trials. Something about, if thats the films, then where is it showing Meredith and Raffaele showing up? WHere is Rudy etc... why would Amanda who didnt have a car be walking in to the car garage? and why didnt the police trace all cars coming from the car garage at that time and question them? Where are the other CCTV and why only show that few seconds? where is the rest of the day? why doesnt the film show when the lady first appeared? maybe an hour or so earlier?

But of course the Prosecution wanted only bad press for Amanda. The leak motivation is obvious and thats to slander Amanda.

If the defence had the resources they could fill the Garbage News with pictures of Stephony and insinuate she planted evidence, or that Mignini is a Satanic Worshipper, or Maresca is a animal sex addict and secretly has prison sex with Rudy Guede, thats what the news wants, imo.

What I'm curious about is "why does Italy have the Judge sit in the room directing the Pretend Judges?"
Dont they feel the average person can understand on their own?
Is Italy really saying "I am the Judge, you are the retards, so I will sit in here and explain to you the way to vote!"?

 

[Strozzi]

. . . did he put his back on to go poo? Did she take hers back into her room? NO!
People just speculating about the words of a known pathological liar. What remains odd is the "soft glove treatment" by Perugia police and prosecutor. That is remarkably strange! All these missing and yet easily obtained details.

Yea sure fast track trial ....I know.

Randy makes an excellent point about Rudy taking his trousers to the toilet. Allow me to dissect what Rudy's claim means.

Rudy earlier (first) claimed that he was on the toilet when he heard Meredith scream. He claimed he ran out to aid her and his trousers, not up all the way, were fallling down around his legs.

Now we learn that immediately preceeding going into the bathroom, Rudy and Meredith were embracing in the kitchen, had both taken their trousers off, and Meredith was permitting Rudy to engage in a most intimate sexual act of arousal/foreplay with her when Rudy suddenly needed to get to the toilet.

For Rudy's two statements to be true, given that both Rudy and Meredith had taken their trousers off in the kitchen, Rudy, having a sudden urge to relieve himself of a bad kabob, would have had to disengage from his intimate foreplay with Meredith, picked up his trousers (and possibly his shoes), carried them with him into the bathroom, sat urgently on the toilet, put on his earphones and selected his music, and begun putting on his trousers (and shoes?) while sitting on the toilet evacuating his bowels so that his trousers were partially on when he rushed out to Meredith's aid. That is what is called multitasking!

Does prosecutor Mignini believe this crap??? If not, how can he give any credibility to what Rudy says? I'll answer that question myself. Mignini chooses what to use not based on its credibility but based on whether it conveniently supports Mignini's story. Right, Toto?

 

[carbonjam72]

Any link to Spezi comment?

Well there should be a person who worked at the nursery then who would have been questioned and could verify if he let Guede in or not.

The "place to stay" story still seems bogus since I am quite certain that Guede has an aunt who lives in Milan and this is why he would go there and that he would stay with her.

Did he go to Milan to fence items? Who knows...could very well be.

I don't think the two closely occurring visits to the nursery are unrelated. The first time he made a haul. Several thousand Euros stolen. There should be more about that somewhere if it is true...again a halfway competent reporter could get this info easily...just go and ask the owner. These are simple facts that we just don't have and it seems curious that we don't.

The watch sold for $200? Who knows? The police in Milan had the watch....that much we know. Did they give it back to him? Once again a half azzed reporter should be able to get this info...which would help put together a idea of what really happened with Guede. Its seems that Frank could do this easily if he was so inclined.

The lack of curiosity among the Italians seems remarkable to me.

Today Mario Spezi posted that he released his book about this case and written with D. Preston in Germany. He went on to lament that no Italian publisher would buy the book...and he also noted that no Italian publisher would buy RS book either...and he finished up his commentary with the speculation that if he wrote a "guilt perspective" book that it would be an easy task in Italy to be published.

How is that even possible to control? Why not self publish? Jail? I cant imagine that the Italians would be dumb enough to place RS in jail for selling his book in Italy. How would it be possible?

If Italy is this corrupt then that seems all the more reason to do just that right now. Publish your book and let them arrest you for that. The world is watching right now...next year maybe not. OTOH does GB still have a ban on publishing AK book? That of all things seems the most remarkable of all! Any Brits have a handle on the precedent of that little impediment to speech? Did the Queen order it? ;-)

Where is the list of RG phone contacts and messages? Also something a half baked reporter should be able to get...or if not then to write about the effort and failure and why and who refused to release that.

I would think a defense lawyer in the AK, RS trial should and would have obtained this RG phone data long ago...why not? Because nothing to indicate any contact between RG and AK and RS perhaps is on there? All the more reason to have it then right?

No reason for this missing data in any case. It should be in RG trial and in AK,RS trial. It is critical evidence and if there is no contact that is also evidence of sorts.

There was a story of a guy...a mean guy ....a friend of RG who escaped to GB. Was this Kokomaniac? I dont think so....Kokomaniac escaped to his own country for a while IIRC.

To let the case cool off and or to resupply his drug business? I doubt the timing meant a visit to momma on mothers day.

Someone beside RG mentioned a dark older car in the driveway...the tow truck guy perhaps? Was Kokomaniac the lookout? Could be...no way to know.
I bet it is more likely that Koko was a lookout than for MK to be taking her pants off for RG in the kitchen...did he put his back on to go poo? Did she take hers back into her room? NO!

People just speculating about the words of a known pathological liar. What remains odd is the "soft glove treatment" by Perugia police and prosecutor. That is remarkably strange! All these missing and yet easily obtained details.

Yea sure fast track trial ....I know.

Hi RandyN, couldn't find this link, but would be interested to see it. Any clue where I might find? Thanks!

 

[goalkeeper1]

I'm a newbie poster on this site but have been a LONG-TIME reader and admirer of the people who post here. First let me state that, like a lot of people, in 2007-08 I started out thinking that A+R were guilty but as time wore on and I read more I became convinced of their absolute innocense. The reason I'm postting today is that I came across some information provided by one of the moderators of the Websleuths site that I think should put to rest once and for all the CCTV controversy

"If the video had relevance it would have been used at trial. Jovana Popovic testified that RS had agreed to drive her to a bus station the night of the murder. She went to RS's house at 8:40 p.m. to tell him she no longer needed a ride and Knox opened the door to take the message. The CCTV video is at 8:43.

I have citations for this information, both from nbc news and the guardian but this site won't let me post them until I have made 15 posts. Sorry!

I wish more people, especially the Guilters, knew about this fact but on second thought, it probably would make little difference to the Guilters.

 

[anglolawyer]

I'm a newbie poster on this site but have been a LONG-TIME reader and admirer of the people who post here. First let me state that, like a lot of people, in 2007-08 I started out thinking that A+R were guilty but as time wore on and I read more I became convinced of their absolute innocense. The reason I'm postting today is that I came across some information provided by one of the moderators of the Websleuths site that I think should put to rest once and for all the CCTV controversy

"If the video had relevance it would have been used at trial. Jovana Popovic testified that RS had agreed to drive her to a bus station the night of the murder. She went to RS's house at 8:40 p.m. to tell him she no longer needed a ride and Knox opened the door to take the message. The CCTV video is at 8:43.

I have citations for this information, both from nbc news and the guardian but this site won't let me post them until I have made 15 posts. Sorry!

I wish more people, especially the Guilters, knew about this fact but on second thought, it probably would make little difference to the Guilters.

Thanks goalkeeper1. Isn't the video clock off by 10 minutes?

 

[Grinder]

Um, what? I'm in Seattle. Big news here is: $15 minimum wage, stuck Bertha, NFL draft, Sounders winning, Mariners, rain, Boeing moving a bunch of engineer jobs to SC, Amazon building spree in South Lake Union, rising housing costs, etc.

There is no focus whatsoever on this case, and certainly none on a phony old screen shot from a video.

These PGP people are seriously in need of therapy.

Bertha's stuck that can't be. Tesla said she was starting up the next day back in January.

RW - the night Rudy (one more time just for you) stayed at the nursery was Friday to Saturday so it does make sense that he wouldn't expect it to be open and the guy that let him in would be back.

Chris - the same coroner that declared there was nothing in the duodenum determined that the sex was consensual IIRC. I can give links to stories from the 3rd and 4th if you want. That was the genesis for the sex party gone wrong.

Strozzi - did I say somewhere I believed all of what Rudi said? No I didn't. I don't see why he would lie about the nursery (except he wouldn't admit the earlier big cash robbery) because it could easily be checked. The owner of the place (Prado) came into the place with a locksmith. She entered the place and found Rudi coming out of her office. No mention was made anywhere that the door had been jimmied (correct usage) or a window broken. He didn't have her computer or anything significant stolen from the nursery.

I think RW's find from the Spanish source, if true, puts a little different light on Rudy's (4RW) behavior pattern. It makes him look more like a fence than a solo burglar. As Randy laments it would be nice if a journalist had researched a fact based and footnoted book. How can it not be known until now that Rudi had a stash of computers. Did Rudi break into the nursery or was he let in? Did Rudi need money for the rent or had he put together plenty of cash from his entrepreneurial endeavors.

I have never thought that the kids broke the window particularly from the inside. I do believe it is possible that Rudi broke the window but ended up talking his way in.

I think it a low probability that Rudi had a date that night with Meredith but an outside possibility. In Italy the gravity of evidence is inversely proportional to the number of connections. Therefore if it possible, just possible it lowers the gravity of the alleged staging if another potential for staging can be put forward. Long ago while looking for other possibles for staging I thought IF Rudi had thought he had a date and Meredith had told her girlfriends he might stage a break-in to throw off the PLE. I doubt it and now know the PLE would not need to be thrown off.

Amanda wouldn't ring the bell but Raf might. Don't go wacky (u know who). Just an observation.

I doubt the bathroom story. I doubt the time of scream or even the scream account.

I believe the Milan account until we are given better info such as the nursery had its door jimmied or a window broken.

I think Koko was involved in some way and the scary guy RW talked about might be an additional accomplice. That accomplice could be the main burglar. There were unidentified prints and maybe DNA found at the cottage. Maybe it was the scary guy that killed Meredith and Rudi has no interest in doing anything to piss him off.

We have very little actual facts that make Rudi the burglar. CT didn't name Rudi to the police until he saw his picture in the paper. I'm sure others here will disagree but if I had the experience CT had and then recognized the perp I'd have taken the time to file a report. I doubt, unless confirmed, that Napoleoni the head of the flying squad would be there in the middle of the night to take CT's initial call/report.

 

[acbytesla]

I'm a newbie poster on this site but have been a LONG-TIME reader and admirer of the people who post here. First let me state that, like a lot of people, in 2007-08 I started out thinking that A+R were guilty but as time wore on and I read more I became convinced of their absolute innocense. The reason I'm postting today is that I came across some information provided by one of the moderators of the Websleuths site that I think should put to rest once and for all the CCTV controversy

"If the video had relevance it would have been used at trial. Jovana Popovic testified that RS had agreed to drive her to a bus station the night of the murder. She went to RS's house at 8:40 p.m. to tell him she no longer needed a ride and Knox opened the door to take the message. The CCTV video is at 8:43.

I have citations for this information, both from nbc news and the guardian but this site won't let me post them until I have made 15 posts. Sorry!

I wish more people, especially the Guilters, knew about this fact but on second thought, it probably would make little difference to the Guilters.

Welcome aboard goalkeeper. Thanks for wading into the pool.

You're right about Popovic. However the time is actually 9:03 not 8:43. The clock on the camera is fast, not slow. I made the same mistake a couple of days ago. So it is not surprising. But it isn't Amanda. Note that the person is entering the garage from the right not exiting the garage toward the cottage which is across the street. Raffaele's apartment is about 6 blocks on the left!!! Also, I'm not even convinced that is a woman, let alone Amanda. It's also not new. The authorities have had the feed from that camera since day one.

 

[acbytesla]

Bertha's stuck that can't be. Tesla said she was starting up the next day back in January.

RW - the night Rudy (one more time just for you) stayed at the nursery was Friday to Saturday so it does make sense that he wouldn't expect it to be open and the guy that let him in would be back.

Chris - the same coroner that declared there was nothing in the duodenum determined that the sex was consensual IIRC. I can give links to stories from the 3rd and 4th if you want. That was the genesis for the sex party gone wrong.

Strozzi - did I say somewhere I believed all of what Rudi said? No I didn't. I don't see why he would lie about the nursery (except he wouldn't admit the earlier big cash robbery) because it could easily be checked. The owner of the place (Prado) came into the place with a locksmith. She entered the place and found Rudi coming out of her office. No mention was made anywhere that the door had been jimmied (correct usage) or a window broken. He didn't have her computer or anything significant stolen from the nursery.

I think RW's find from the Spanish source, if true, puts a little different light on Rudy's (4RW) behavior pattern. It makes him look more like a fence than a solo burglar. As Randy laments it would be nice if a journalist had researched a fact based and footnoted book. How can it not be known until now that Rudi had a stash of computers. Did Rudi break into the nursery or was he let in? Did Rudi need money for the rent or had he put together plenty of cash from his entrepreneurial endeavors.

I have never thought that the kids broke the window particularly from the inside. I do believe it is possible that Rudi broke the window but ended up talking his way in.

I think it a low probability that Rudi had a date that night with Meredith but an outside possibility. In Italy the gravity of evidence is inversely proportional to the number of connections. Therefore if it possible, just possible it lowers the gravity of the alleged staging if another potential for staging can be put forward. Long ago while looking for other possibles for staging I thought IF Rudi had thought he had a date and Meredith had told her girlfriends he might stage a break-in to throw off the PLE. I doubt it and now know the PLE would not need to be thrown off.

Amanda wouldn't ring the bell but Raf might. Don't go wacky (u know who). Just an observation.

I doubt the bathroom story. I doubt the time of scream or even the scream account.

I believe the Milan account until we are given better info such as the nursery had its door jimmied or a window broken.

I think Koko was involved in some way and the scary guy RW talked about might be an additional accomplice. That accomplice could be the main burglar. There were unidentified prints and maybe DNA found at the cottage. Maybe it was the scary guy that killed Meredith and Rudi has no interest in doing anything to piss him off.

We have very little actual facts that make Rudi the burglar. CT didn't name Rudi to the police until he saw his picture in the paper. I'm sure others here will disagree but if I had the experience CT had and then recognized the perp I'd have taken the time to file a report. I doubt, unless confirmed, that Napoleoni the head of the flying squad would be there in the middle of the night to take CT's initial call/report.

????? Seriously, Grinder??? The fact that he is caught red handed inside the nursery makes him look like a burglar. I think of a fence as a someone who doesn't break into places but "traffics" in stolen goods. The evidence is that Rudy is a small time burglar who hasn't moved what he stole. You are willing to totally dismiss Cristian Tremantano, Ms. Diaz and the cluster or location of the break-ins. They are all around his home!!!

 

[Diocletus]

Welcome aboard goalkeeper. Thanks for wading into the pool.

You're right about Popovic. However the time is actually 9:03 not 8:43. The clock on the camera is fast, not slow. I made the same mistake a couple of days ago. So it is not surprising. But it isn't Amanda. Note that the person is entering the garage from the right not exiting the garage toward the cottage which is across the street. Raffaele's apartment is about 6 blocks on the left!!! Also, I'm not even convinced that is a woman, let alone Amanda. It's also not new. The authorities have had the feed from that camera since day one.

Right, but I think that the point that is being made is that the prosecution was claiming in 2009 that the clock was 10 minutes fast (so they could prove their lie about calling 112 after the police arrived), and therefore they could not use an 8:53 video of "Amanda" at the garage, because she would have been talking to Popovic at that time (i.e., 8:43 if the clock is fast as claimed by the prosecution).

So, weighing the damage that would be done by the 112 Call issue, against the possibility of anyone identifying the video to Amanda Knox, they went with the "clock fast" story and disregarded the video.

Now we know the video is really from 9:03. In fact, the person in the video might be the second-to-last person to have seen Kercher alive. Too bad the police didn't investigate the lead, but I suppose it would have rubbished their silly 112 argument/lie if they had actually done their job, investigated, and found the person. So, they didn't.

 

[Grinder]

I'm a newbie poster on this site but have been a LONG-TIME reader and admirer of the people who post here. First let me state that, like a lot of people, in 2007-08 I started out thinking that A+R were guilty but as time wore on and I read more I became convinced of their absolute innocense. The reason I'm postting today is that I came across some information provided by one of the moderators of the Websleuths site that I think should put to rest once and for all the CCTV controversy

"If the video had relevance it would have been used at trial. Jovana Popovic testified that RS had agreed to drive her to a bus station the night of the murder. She went to RS's house at 8:40 p.m. to tell him she no longer needed a ride and Knox opened the door to take the message. The CCTV video is at 8:43.

I have citations for this information, both from nbc news and the guardian but this site won't let me post them until I have made 15 posts. Sorry!

I wish more people, especially the Guilters, knew about this fact but on second thought, it probably would make little difference to the Guilters.

Welcome on board. May the force be with you

Send the links to someone here by PM or do you have to have a number of post to send a PM?

The picture doesn't look like her and as I mentioned a few days ago she uses the wrong hand to hold it and I never heard of a coat that matches the one in the pic. As Anglo has pointed out she is walking in the wrong direction.

Where was this video for 7 years?

You can just put the titles of the stories in a post and anyone can Google and find them.

 

[goalkeeper1]

Welcome aboard goalkeeper. Thanks for wading into the pool.

You're right about Popovic. However the time is actually 9:03 not 8:43. The clock on the camera is fast, not slow. I made the same mistake a couple of days ago. So it is not surprising. But it isn't Amanda. Note that the person is entering the garage from the right not exiting the garage toward the cottage which is across the street. Raffaele's apartment is about 6 blocks on the left!!! Also, I'm not even convinced that is a woman, let alone Amanda. It's also not new. The authorities have had the feed from that camera since day one.

I agree with the clock being 10 minutes fast but the clock on the film reads 20:53. If it's 10 minutes fast, then the actual time is 20:43 or am I missing something?

 

[Grinder]

????? Seriously, Grinder??? The fact that he is caught red handed inside the nursery makes him look like a burglar. I think of a fence as a someone who doesn't break into places but "traffics" in stolen goods. The evidence is that Rudy is a small time burglar who hasn't moved what he stole. You are willing to totally dismiss Cristian Tremantano, Ms. Diaz and the cluster or location of the break-ins. They are all around his home!!!

Tesla - Diaz is a single true crime novelist source and that was just an assumption. He wasn't connected to the alleged event by anyone else. Randy is correct that a journalist could find out the facts and document them.

He was caught "red handed" in the nursery with a stolen kitchen knife not exactly a big haul. I believe that he was there to sleep.

RW's new info makes him look much more of a small time fence than a burglar. It make his going to the lawyers' office make more sense.

I think it is odd that Cristian didn't go to the police after IDing Rudi in the club. Can you think of why he wouldn't? A guy that broke into your place and threatened you with a knife yet you punish him by banning him from a club?