Oscar Pistorius shoots girlfriend

[Scordatura]

Ignorance of the law is no defence?

But, yes, he's certainly lying. With OP now ruled out of the witness box (afaik) it's a little hard to see how the defence can get back on track.

Psychiatric evidence?

I meant that the court won't expect him to understand the law as thoroughly as a lawyer and might overlook some of his comments regarding involuntary actions. But the court will expect him to understand the laws that pertain to his firearms certification.

It'll be interesting to see if OP's defense presents any psychiatric testimony - I expect they will but I wonder if they'll add in a little something about "temporary insanity" because of OP's statements.

 

[Scordatura]

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Live/LIVE-UPDATES-Pistorius-trial-day-17-20140407

April 8, 2014, day 17 of the trial:

10:49 -*"Oscar Pistorius's back heaves under the embrace of his brother Carl and sister Aimee, his psychologist cradling his head. We can hear his sobs," says reporter*Nastasya Tay.

14:44 -*"As soon as the judge leaves, he (Pistorius) sits down, puts his head in his hands. His brother Carl goes over and wraps his arms around him," tweets*Aislinn Laing.*

"He is surrounded by his family who have all flocked to the dock to help him," says*Alex Crawford. "He's sitting on the floor of the dock, his face being stroked by his psychologist," Crawford further says.

Anyone know who this psychologist is? A potential witness for the defense or just there to comfort OP?

Jeez, he sounds like a 2 year old....

 

[MontagK505]

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Live/LIVE-UPDATES-Pistorius-trial-day-17-20140407

April 8, 2014, day 17 of the trial:






Anyone know who this psychologist is? A potential witness for the defense or just there to comfort OP?

Jeez, he sounds like a 2 year old....

As I pointed out earlier, once he set actually foot in the courtroom, it may have really hit home just how serious his situation is. He's undoubtedly terrified of going to prison. And I'll grant, he sincerely regrets killing his girlfriend.

 

[Bob001]

Exactly.
....
He didn't run away, he didn't hit the panic button on the alarm remote, he didn't call security.
....

Do we know that his house had an alarm system and panic button? If it did, then it's even more suspicious for him to claim that an open balcony door could only mean that an intruder was in his bedroom, rather than that he or Reeva forgot to close it, and he had time to retrieve his pistol but not hit the alarm button. I'm not sure that's how the hypothetical "reasonable person" would behave.

 

[Scordatura]

Do we know that his house had an alarm system and panic button? If it did, then it's even more suspicious for him to claim that an open balcony door could only mean that an intruder was in his bedroom, rather than that he or Reeva forgot to close it, and he had time to retrieve his pistol but not hit the alarm button. I'm not sure that's how the hypothetical "reasonable person" would behave.

Not the balcony; OP is claiming an intruder entered through the bathroom window while he was retrieving fans off the balcony.

Mr. Baba (the security guard) testified that OP's keychain alarm remote had a panic button. His system could be set so the sensors were on outside the bedroom door (at the top of the stairs) but not on in the bedroom so he could move around without setting off the alarm.

OP also said he armed the system that night but there were no sensors on the bathroom window. I don't know about the balcony doors – maybe no sensor or they were also turned off.

There are sensors on the outside perimeter that were armed but didn't go off; OP said that the intruder could have taken them off (??) or that painters may have disabled them in 2012 while working on the house, though he said he was not aware of any such malfunction in 2013.

So much for his fear-inspired hyper vigilance about safety I guess....

 

[icerat]

And we're back.

Johan Stander on the stand today, the estate manager and neighbour and friend of Pistorius that he called for help immediately after the incident.

An interesting aside though in the WP article today, referring to his Pistorius' cross-examination at the hands of Gerrie Nel -

Pistorius wept on the stand in response, his voice at times taking on a keening falsetto.

So when stressed and under pressure his voice pitch goes up. It strikes me that this is consistent with the defence claims that witnesses heard him screaming when they thought they heard a woman scream.

 

[icerat]

Hmm, just realized something else. Apparently the defence will be calling a psychologist to talk about Pistorius's insecurities and feelings of vulnerability because of his "disability". A few weeks back when discussing the believability of him not seeing Steenkamp wasn't in bed I searched for photos to see if there were any to show how he typically moves without his prosthesis (walking on stumps or scooting on backside). I couldn't find any.

That's actually quite interesting. You'll find many many photos of amputees or others lacking lower limbs all over the place - but here is one of the more famous people in the world, probably tens of thousands of photos of him out there - and with one exception, I can't find a single one of him without his prosthesis. There are a few of him in the process of changing from his "normal" legs to his blades, but the only one I can find of him without prosthesis is a photo of him taken after the shooting and displayed in court.

I'd be extremely surprised if there weren't some others, but I couldn't find them. Anyone else?

The lack of them does support the idea of him being extremely insecure.

 

[MontagK505]

Not the balcony; OP is claiming an intruder entered through the bathroom window while he was retrieving fans off the balcony.

Mr. Baba (the security guard) testified that OP's keychain alarm remote had a panic button. His system could be set so the sensors were on outside the bedroom door (at the top of the stairs) but not on in the bedroom so he could move around without setting off the alarm.

OP also said he armed the system that night but there were no sensors on the bathroom window. I don't know about the balcony doors – maybe no sensor or they were also turned off.

There are sensors on the outside perimeter that were armed but didn't go off; OP said that the intruder could have taken them off (??) or that painters may have disabled them in 2012 while working on the house, though he said he was not aware of any such malfunction in 2013.

So much for his fear-inspired hyper vigilance about safety I guess....

I find it interesting in his fear-inspired state and feeling of vulnerability he never set's off the panic button or calls security. But he hobbles down a dark hallway toward what he claims as danger.

 

[GlennB]

Mmmm, but it doesn't mesh well with the long-term broken window downstairs, the lack of bars on the bathroom window, his uncertainty about whether the alarm system was armed, leaving the ladder outside rather than put it in the garage, parking his cars on the street, sleeping with the balcony doors open .....

Deeply insecure + pretty careless over security is a hard story to sell.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Mmmm, but it doesn't mesh well with the long-term broken window downstairs, the lack of bars on the bathroom window, his uncertainty about whether the alarm system was armed, leaving the ladder outside rather than put it in the garage, parking his cars on the street, sleeping with the balcony doors open .....

Deeply insecure + pretty careless over security is a hard story to sell.

Wouldn't you be scared if you knew how shoddy the security was?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I find it interesting in his fear-inspired state and feeling of vulnerability he never set's off the panic button or calls security. But he hobbles down a dark hallway toward what he claims as danger.

Funny that.

Mmmm, but it doesn't mesh well with the long-term broken window downstairs, the lack of bars on the bathroom window, his uncertainty about whether the alarm system was armed, leaving the ladder outside rather than put it in the garage, parking his cars on the street, sleeping with the balcony doors open .....

Deeply insecure + pretty careless over security is a hard story to sell.

And that. They had friggin cell phones, you call for help even if you decide to head off after an intruder.

 

[Samson]

And we're back.

Johan Stander on the stand today, the estate manager and neighbour and friend of Pistorius that he called for help immediately after the incident.

An interesting aside though in the WP article today, referring to his Pistorius' cross-examination at the hands of Gerrie Nel -

Pistorius wept on the stand in response, his voice at times taking on a keening falsetto.

So when stressed and under pressure his voice pitch goes up. It strikes me that this is consistent with the defence claims that witnesses heard him screaming when they thought they heard a woman scream.

After watching live the first day, and snippets after, I am tempted to still buy into the theory of tragic accident. Is there more on that valentine card of Reeva's declaring this is the day I declare my love?

 

[zooterkin]

Pistorius wept on the stand in response, his voice at times taking on a keening falsetto.

So when stressed and under pressure his voice pitch goes up. It strikes me that this is consistent with the defence claims that witnesses heard him screaming when they thought they heard a woman scream.

Ok, but how do we know that he isn't faking it, in order to lend credibility to this claim?

 

[Dissolution]

There were previous accusations of acting lessons, though they appear to be from an anonymous source.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27114859

 

[Lensman]

Pistorius allegedly made sinister remark in court

Pistorius allegedly made sinister remark in court

<snip>...
A lawyer for Kim Myers, who was close to Steenkamp, said Pistorius approached Myers in the Pretoria courtroom and said to her "how can you sleep at night?"

Lawyer Ian Levitt told The Associated Press that Myers said Pistorius made the remark in a "very sinister way."
...

 

[Scordatura]

And we're back.

Johan Stander on the stand today, the estate manager and neighbour and friend of Pistorius that he called for help immediately after the incident.

An interesting aside though in the WP article today, referring to his Pistorius' cross-examination at the hands of Gerrie Nel -

Pistorius wept on the stand in response, his voice at times taking on a keening falsetto.

So when stressed and under pressure his voice pitch goes up. It strikes me that this is consistent with the defence claims that witnesses heard him screaming when they thought they heard a woman scream.

So far the defense's witnesses have all said they heard a man's voice crying loudly and not a woman's. It was the prosecution's witnesses that claimed to hear a woman's voice.

That may change as Roux calls other defense witnesses. He stated he would present evidence that OP sounded like a woman that night.

 

[Skwinty]

So far the defense's witnesses have all said they heard a man's voice crying loudly and not a woman's. It was the prosecution's witnesses that claimed to hear a woman's voice.

The defense witnesses who testified to hearing a man crying did not hear the gunshots or the cricket bat, so they would not have heard a woman crying or screaming as she was dead by then.

I think they heard Pistorius when he was already downstairs with Reeva lying dead on the floor.

Pistorius' defense, and nobody is quite sure what it is, is looking very shaky right now.

 

[Scordatura]

There were previous accusations of acting lessons, though they appear to be from an anonymous source.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27114859

The family and their spokesperson have denied this and I believe them - it's pretty far-fetched and no proof.

Maybe it's Mr. Stander who's had the acting lessons? <joke>

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/05/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-trial/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

Pistorius neighbor Johan Stander made an impassioned defense of Pistorius on the stand as he described what he saw that night.

"His commitment to save the young lady's life -- when he put his finger in the young lady's mouth ... how he begged her to stay alive. ... I saw the truth that morning. I saw it. And I feel it," said Stander, who was the first person Pistorius called after killing his girlfriend Steenkamp, a model and law school graduate.

He came to Pistorius' house in response to an urgent phone call from the double amputee sprinter at 3:18 a.m. February 14, 2013, he explained.

"Please, please, please, come to my house. I've shot Reeva. I thought she was an intruder. Please, please, please, come quick," Pistorius begged Stander, the defense witness testified.

I'm still not sure why OP called him first instead of NetCare or Security or the Police....

 

[Skwinty]

Maybe it's Mr. Stander who's had the acting lessons? <joke>

Stander: I saw and felt the truth.

 

[Scordatura]

Hmm, just realized something else. Apparently the defence will be calling a psychologist to talk about Pistorius's insecurities and feelings of vulnerability because of his "disability". A few weeks back when discussing the believability of him not seeing Steenkamp wasn't in bed I searched for photos to see if there were any to show how he typically moves without his prosthesis (walking on stumps or scooting on backside). I couldn't find any.

That's actually quite interesting. You'll find many many photos of amputees or others lacking lower limbs all over the place - but here is one of the more famous people in the world, probably tens of thousands of photos of him out there - and with one exception, I can't find a single one of him without his prosthesis. There are a few of him in the process of changing from his "normal" legs to his blades, but the only one I can find of him without prosthesis is a photo of him taken after the shooting and displayed in court.

I'd be extremely surprised if there weren't some others, but I couldn't find them. Anyone else?

The lack of them does support the idea of him being extremely insecure.

You'd also be hard-pressed to find photos of celebrities without their hair extensions, wigs, makeup and false teeth. Insecurity, sure, but maybe a little vanity also.

OP may have felt insecure, even vulnerable without his “legs,” but holding a loaded gun in his hand is quite an equalizer. Judging by his actions that night it must have been enough to overcome his fear and vulnerability.

Even animals will run if possible and only strike out if cornered, and it was RS, not OP who was cornered that night.