Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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Just a quick thought. If, as Mach tells us, Rudy was never convicted or arrested for any burglaries, why does Nencini refer to him as a professional burglar. Guilters would have us believe that Rudy never committed any burglaries.
 
If Nencini is calling Rudy a professional burglar, isn't he admitting that ILE knows of previous burglaries he committed?
 
Poppy1016 said:
If Nencini is calling Rudy a professional burglar, isn't he admitting that ILE knows of previous burglaries he committed?
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Excellent point, Poppy, although I don't think he has any idea what the ILE actually knows and doesn't know. He is probably just embellishing for a better narrative flow. ;)
 
Poppy1016 said:
Just a quick thought. If, as Mach tells us, Rudy was never convicted or arrested for any burglaries, why does Nencini refer to him as a professional burglar. Guilters would have us believe that Rudy never committed any burglaries.
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Poppy1016 said:
If Nencini is calling Rudy a professional burglar, isn't he admitting that ILE knows of previous burglaries he committed?
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Great observation. Previously he was hardly a burglar at all, now he's such a pro he can go through any door. Except RandyW linked Frank's interview with Christian in which he went in through a window and could not even open the front door to let himself out from the inside and of course someone, let's agree with Nonsense it was Rudi Rudy, used a rock when doing so! Eek!
 
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Dan O. said:
I have 2 open theories for how the DNA got on the bra clasp. The first is that Meredith had gotten the DNA from several boys, including Raffaele, under her finger nail and then transferred that to the one clasp hook before showering and cleaning her nails that morning. The second Is the deliberate contamination of the one hook from an object takes from the dirty prison cell that was presumed to have Raffaele's DNA but also contained DNA from other inmates or guards.

Can anyone else think of other possibilities that account for multiple male profiles being found on the one hook and nothing but Meredith on the other?
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Harryrag and Judge Hellmann both agree there is abundant dna of Raffaele on the bra clasp hook. Someone should mediate on which is the best of these two theories to sign off on, as an exercise in bridge building. I note no one has offered any other theory to consider.
 
Samson said:
Harryrag and Judge Hellmann both agree there is abundant dna of Raffaele on the bra clasp hook. Someone should mediate on which is the best of these two theories to sign off on, as an exercise in bridge building. I note no one has offered any other theory to consider.
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Strictly speaking, Hellman was not entitled to conclude any such thing since by the time C-V got their hands on the clasp its incorrect storage had rendered it useless. IOW we only have Stefanoni's word there was anything on it in the first place and she is a proven liar. That by itself ought to be enough to dispose of it as evidence without delving into hypotheses about how the DNA got there. Since we now know there are female Y-haplos on it I bet one of them is Stef herself and the others are Monica's and Manuela's.
 
How are Amanda and Raffaele taking this? I mean, it's so surreal it's hard to know how anyone can react to it.

Rolfe.
 
anglolawyer said:
Strictly speaking, Hellman was not entitled to conclude any such thing since by the time C-V got their hands on the clasp its incorrect storage had rendered it useless. IOW we only have Stefanoni's word there was anything on it in the first place and she is a proven liar. That by itself ought to be enough to dispose of it as evidence without delving into hypotheses about how the DNA got there. Since we now know there are female Y-haplos on it I bet one of them is Stef herself and the others are Monica's and Manuela's.
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I work a lot from memory. In a post acquittal interview, Hellmann said "yes there was Raffaele's dna on the bra clasp". Of that I am certain (he said it).

I think Dan O's proposition needs a new thread, as do a multitude of subjects.

In simple terms, and contained within this thread, is Planigale's anecdote that she dated an English policeman who said framing is commonplace when we know the perp is guilty (paraphrase please excuse), and you may well have something to add there.

I see no realistic alternative to planting, and Dan O's suggestion that a diminishing presence of male dna is far from scientifically illogical. It falls closely into the Holmes paradigm, no matter how unlikely, if nothing else is on the table, it is likely true.

I think Mignini broke when the pesky family counted the shoe rings, and went to the media.
 
Rolfe said:
How are Amanda and Raffaele taking this? I mean, it's so surreal it's hard to know how anyone can react to it.

Rolfe.
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I read a lot of your countryman's Christopher Brookmyre, black murder humourist with a superb grasp of narrative and turn of phrase. Where are these people with this reality show?
 
bra clasp contamination

Samson said:
Harryrag and Judge Hellmann both agree there is abundant dna of Raffaele on the bra clasp hook. Someone should mediate on which is the best of these two theories to sign off on, as an exercise in bridge building. I note no one has offered any other theory to consider.
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Think I menioned Dr Peter Gill, UK DNA expert, had suggested in a documentary on BBC radio recently, since the January conviction, that Rafaele could have touched the outside door handle of Meredith's room when they tried to see if she was in there. And that the investigators, wearing latex gloves (which are good at picking up DNA), may have transferred it from the door handle to the bra clasp at any time.

The interviewer then asked a police inspector (I forget who) if they had tested the outside doornob for DNA, and his response was, "No, the crime was inside the room, why would we test the outside door handle".

Dr Gill said that guilt had absolutely not been proven beyond reasonable doubt for Amanda and Raf.
 
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On planting DNA -

Samson said:
I work a lot from memory. In a post acquittal interview, Hellmann said "yes there was Raffaele's dna on the bra clasp". Of that I am certain (he said it).

I think Dan O's proposition needs a new thread, as do a multitude of subjects.

In simple terms, and contained within this thread, is Planigale's anecdote that she dated an English policeman who said framing is commonplace when we know the perp is guilty (paraphrase please excuse), and you may well have something to add there.

I see no realistic alternative to planting, and Dan O's suggestion that a diminishing presence of male dna is far from scientifically illogical. It falls closely into the Holmes paradigm, no matter how unlikely, if nothing else is on the table, it is likely true.

I think Mignini broke when the pesky family counted the shoe rings, and went to the media.
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I'm having trouble with the idea of direct planting of evidence.

In the DNA on the knife, it's been described as only a trace, maybe 4 or 5 skin cells. How does one plant so little material? I think the idea of planting on the knife and bra clasp is tough to buy because the quantities of DNA involved are so small and invisible, so difficult to work with in a reliable way.

And the one thing the police have demonstrated, is a lack of competence, particularly in regard to evidence handling & collection.

I think its more likely the results were gamed in the lab by Stefanoni. The DNA folks here on JREF seem to think her results are happy accidents. I just can't believe she keeps getting THAT lucky at SUCH crucial times. They need evidence, and VOILA, she finds it. Defies logic, just not credible.
 
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