Continuation Part Eight: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Diocletus]

Earlier today Sky News was reporting of a botched execution in America.

America does not require my agreement or respect, it will act like any other western sovereign state.

Just saying.

I've never understood this. 5000 years of human civilization, and basically everyone has practiced capital punishment for 4950 of it. 50 years ago, Europeans decide that capital punishment is uncivilized (this is right after they go through with a couple of wars that killed, idk, 20 million people), and now they're all up on a high horse about it. Weird.

 

[Grinder]

Well, my understanding is that the requesting isn't done by the same crooked judicial cabal that is running this railroad. Also, you're assuming that Knox can't pursue some collateral action to gum up the extradition process before any request makes it to the US.

Dear me, I'm only responding to a cite abou tCherif Bassiouni's blog post.

The requesting is done by their government not their court system. It is quite possible that they will not request as in another recent case.

Are you suggesting that Marriott has an Italian affiliate?

 

[Samson]

She knew that Meredith was going to the pizza party and Filomena was going to Luca's or whatever her boyfriend fiancee. Laura was in Rome and it is a fair assumption IMO that Amanda would be aware of it.

Had she murdered Meredith I do believe the email would be structured for her position.

What about the four downstairs? Are they wooden floors for noise transmission or concrete. That staging was a noisy business because of the embedded glass. Why did she think someone must be home? Let's assume she was not the killer, so she demonstrates she by no means knew she was home alone.

 

[Grinder]

Definitely agree. Raf is the one whose liberty is in jeopardy. I cling to the hope the ISC will reject Nencini, and dismiss the case outright for insufficiency of evidence. What's amazing though, is how many openings Nencini provided for the ISC to reject his opinion, hard to believe he's not intentionally tanking the case. Then again, he certainly looks the part of the brutal ignorant buffoon.

Exactly what the dark side said about Hellmann and they were right.

 

[acbytesla]

I've never understood this. 5000 years of human civilization, and basically everyone has practiced capital punishment for 4950 of it. 50 years ago, Europeans decide that capital punishment is uncivilized (this is right after they go through with a couple of wars that killed, idk, 20 million people), and now they're all up on a high horse about it. Weird.

I'm kind of with them on that Diocletus but not for humanitarian reasons, but because of the possibility of mistakes and because of the endless appeals etc, it costs around three times as much to execute someone in the US than it does to imprison them for life.

I hate the idea that an innocent person can get executed..but if had the chance, I'd be more than willing to put the rope around say Gary Ridgeway's neck.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

I've never understood this. 5000 years of human civilization, and basically everyone has practiced capital punishment for 4950 of it. 50 years ago, Europeans decide that capital punishment is uncivilized (this is right after they go through with a couple of wars that killed, idk, 20 million people), and now they're all up on a high horse about it. Weird.

I know, right? You know what else is weird? Five thousand years of human civilisation subjugating women and fifty years ago someone decides that they should have the right to vote and that it's not okay for their husbands to rape them any more and now we're all on our high horses about it!

Sheesh, how about a little perspective? Don't get me started on slavery.

 

[Grinder]

What about the four downstairs? Are they wooden floors for noise transmission or concrete. That staging was a noisy business because of the embedded glass. Why did she think someone must be home? Let's assume she was not the killer, so she demonstrates she by no means knew she was home alone.

This just work if you don't assume she is innocent. If guilty she didn't assume someone must be home. I mean, come on.

I would say that it is obvious no one was home downstairs during the murder and if one were involved in that murder the fact that no one came upstairs and there were no lights on would make them calm about it.

 

[Diocletus]

I'm kind of with them on that Diocletus but not for humanitarian reasons, but because of the possibility of mistakes and because of the endless appeals etc, it costs around three times as much to execute someone in the US than it does to imprison them for life.

I hate the idea that an innocent person can get executed..but if had the chance, I'd be more than willing to put the rope around say Gary Ridgeway's neck.

I didn't say that I agree with capital punishment. It's the high horse that I think is funny.

 

[Diocletus]

I know, right? You know what else is weird? Five thousand years of human civilisation subjugating women and fifty years ago someone decides that they should have the right to vote and that it's not okay for their husbands to rape them any more and now we're all on our high horses about it!

Holy hyperbole, batman.

 

[Samson]

This just work if you don't assume she is innocent. If guilty she didn't assume someone must be home. I mean, come on.

I would say that it is obvious no one was home downstairs during the murder and if one were involved in that murder the fact that no one came upstairs and there were no lights on would make them calm about it.

The point is if she knew everyone was away, an innocent Amanda immediately suspects a break in with the front door open, and checks the house, finds the mess in Filomena's room, rings Raffaele who calls the police directly. Because she did none of this, but mentally concluded someone was home, Nencini is wrong to declare she knew she had all the time in the world and that no one would be home. He made it up.

 

[acbytesla]

I know, right? You know what else is weird? Five thousand years of human civilisation subjugating women and fifty years ago someone decides that they should have the right to vote and that it's not okay for their husbands to rape them any more and now we're all on our high horses about it!

Sheesh, how about a little perspective? Don't get me started on slavery.

Who are you Kevin?? Donald Sterling??

 

[acbytesla]

I didn't say that I agree with capital punishment. It's the high horse that I think is funny.

It was funny... The world, she sure is a changing. In all fairness, they aren't the same people. Hell, we aren't the same people. I can't believe how quickly gay marriage keeps getting legalized in state after state. Just a few years ago,it wasn't legal anywhere in the US. Hell, they just legalized pot in my state.

 

[JREF2010]

Definitely agree. Raf is the one whose liberty is in jeopardy. I cling to the hope the ISC will reject Nencini, and dismiss the case outright for insufficiency of evidence. What's amazing though, is how many openings Nencini provided for the ISC to reject his opinion, hard to believe he's not intentionally tanking the case. Then again, he certainly looks the part of the brutal ignorant buffoon.

Nencini isnt retiring, so I might assume he has different reasons for his stance.
Hellman was retiring, he can speak up now, and not be fired or worse.

Frank and others mentioned this obvious reality, basically fear, is why none of the possibly honest police dont speak up about the interrogation or anything else.
You have people like Mignini and Monica Napoleoni in charge, what can anyone expect but silence and fear. It happens everywhere, the ones who ruin the dignity of the force often have the most power.

Sure the outside governments might not be afraid of the Italian system and see the obvious and innocence, but it wont help Raffaele.

 

[proudfootz]

Italy has already breached. See above.

Wouldn't matter even if this were true. The US does whatever it pleases.

 

[acbytesla]

Wouldn't matter even if this were true. The US does whatever it pleases.

Pretty much every country does.

 

[Bob001]

I haven't been following this as closely as some people. But the latest news is just the explanation/rationalization for the decision that was announced in January, right? Can this one be appealed again? To whom? At what point does the Italian Supreme Court make a "final" decision? (I'm putting final in quotes because nothing seems to be final in Italy.) And can a Supreme Court decision be appealed anywhere? Is anyone in Italy empowered to issue the equivalent of a pardon? What is Amanda's legal status now? Can she travel safely outside of the U.S.?

 

[Bill Williams]

I haven't been following this as closely as some people. But the latest news is just the explanation/rationalization for the decision that was announced in January, right? Can this one be appealed again? To whom? At what point does the Italian Supreme Court make a "final" decision? (I'm putting final in quotes because nothing seems to be final in Italy.) And can a Supreme Court decision be appealed anywhere? Is anyone in Italy empowered to issue the equivalent of a pardon? What is Amanda's legal status now? Can she travel safely outside of the U.S.?

Dec 2009 - conviction
March 2010 - Massei motivations report explaining conviction
Oct 2011 (2nd grade mandatory appeal) - acquittal
December 2011 - Hellmann motivations report explains acquittal
March 2013 (mandatory Supreme Court ruling) - quashed the Oct 2011 acquittal, ordered a new 2nd grade appeal
Jan 2014 - new 2nd grade conviction
Apr 2014 - Nencini motivations report explains reconviction
Dec 2014 to May 2015 (mandatory Supreme court ruling has the option to:

- sustain the Nencini conviction
- quash the conviction and order a 3rd 2nd grade appeal
- acquit outright​

In the event of a conviction confirmed by the Supreme Court, Italy is a signatory to the European Court of Human Rights, sometimes called European Convention of Human Rights. Many believe that ECHR would hear an appeal to this supranational body in the event of a conviction.

 

[RandyN]

Earlier today Sky News was reporting of a botched execution in America.
America does not require my agreement or respect, it will act like any other western sovereign state.

Just saying.

The execution was not botched. The brutal murderer is dead. He had a much easier death than his victim.

You are mistaken in your understanding about capital punishment in "America" as you call it. Capital punishment is legal in some states and not legal in others. I don't really care enough to know the who what and wheres.

Perhaps they should have given the poor fellow 30 years and reduced it to 16 right? After all he only kidnapped a high school girl, shot her twice and then buried her alive.

16 years reduced to 8 for good behavior seems about right for the liberal minded. I wonder how you would feel if he had done this to your daughter? He is a lot like Guede...except Guede didn't bother to bury MK alive...he simply left her to die while he went dancing.

Botched? No...they should have pulled the lines and buried him alive...eye for an eye and all that.

 

[RandyN]

I haven't been following this as closely as some people. But the latest news is just the explanation/rationalization for the decision that was announced in January, right? Can this one be appealed again? To whom? At what point does the Italian Supreme Court make a "final" decision? (I'm putting final in quotes because nothing seems to be final in Italy.) And can a Supreme Court decision be appealed anywhere? Is anyone in Italy empowered to issue the equivalent of a pardon? What is Amanda's legal status now? Can she travel safely outside of the U.S.?

Yes it can be appealed. In Italy anything is possible. They have an opposite and equal law to every law on their books.

Hellmann was in fact one judge of a 3 judge panel that in fact overturned a murder conviction from year 2000. The guilty conviction had been affirmed by the Italian Supreme Court...funny Yummi never talks about these cases.

Stroman.


Bill you forgot to mention that both the defense and the prosecution can appeal the recent Nencini decision. It is not simply left in their hands.

 

[RandyN]

OK, let's look at the lesser mistake first. No one has ever said that Silenzi's reference profile was even taken (I have never seen it), and Mrs. Stefanoni tried to ignore the extra peaks in the YSTR analysis. So how would Nencini or anyone else know whether or not Silenzi contributed DNA to the clasp? What utter rubbish.

Now, I hope no one asks me for a citation, but the last time I checked, only men had Y chromosomes, not women. However, this is actually interesting. I distinctly recall that when we first discussed the extra DNA on the clasp, Fulcanelli insisted that the other contributors were women. It is almost as if Nencini is trawling through all the old lies from 2007-2009 and trotting them out again. The notion of Amanda's grabbing Meredith so hard that fingermarks were left is at least as old as the cartoon that the prosecutors showed in 2009. What's next, a claim that there are bleach receipts?

Why yes and I hear Fulcanelli has the actual copy of that bleach receipt...but he is saving it for himself for some reason.

I hope the defense is catching all these judicial errors. Going by the last 6 or so years I'm not all that hopeful they have a clue actually.

This is the first time I recall Silenzi actually being named as a DNA contributor. Certainly that is a judicial lie. Are Italian judges allowed to simple make up "facts" in a case?