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You be the judge (sentencing)

anglolawyer

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anglolawyer
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Dec 11, 2011
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Two cases for forum members to pass sentence on. This one is not for Brits unless by some chance you missed the headlines.

Case A - 71 year old, very successful and well-known PR man and publicist convicted on 8 counts of sexual assault committed between 1966 and the early 80s. Youngest victim 15. Offences included:

THE WOULD-BE ACTRESS: The court heard that, in the early 1980s, Clifford told a girl that he could ‘get her on TV tomorrow’, but needed to see her figure. She took her dress off, at which point Clifford is said to have groped her. Then his wife rang; Clifford answered, and began to masturbate. He then tried to force the girl to perform a sex act on him.
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It was claimed that Clifford met the girl, then aged 15, while in Spain in the summer of 1977, and offered to find her modelling work. She was later called by a 'Terry Miller', who told her she was ‘really lucky’ as Clifford was ‘so influential’. The prosecution says ‘Miller’ was either Clifford himself, or someone he had asked to ‘reel her in’. She claimed that, when she was alone with Clifford, he told her to take her top and bra off because he needed to see her breasts. He later forced her to perform sex acts while he assaulted her.
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Relevant data - your sentencing powers are limited to two years for each offence but you can order the sentences to run consecutively.

Case B - barrister and part-time judge convicted of three counts of perverting the course of justice by lying to police and falsifying a witness statement. She embroiled herself in a husband and wife case in which H had asked W to take his speeding points so he would not be disqualified from driving. The barrister supplied information to the press but then lied about it.

This one is being discussed elsewhere on the forum so only have a stab at it if you haven't already seen the outcome. There appears to be no maximum penalty.
 
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Both cases lack important context (particularly Case B), so I'm not sure what you're on about, but here goes.

Case A: Sentenced to two years for each count, but with the sentences running concurrently (so two years total). Lapse in time since the commission of the crimes and the age of the defendant are mitigating factors.

Case B: Disbarment, plus fine equal to 10% of annual salary, plus 6mth suspended sentence.
 
Throw the book at both of them.

In case A that's just because I really don't like the man (I should never, ever be a judge)

In case B it's because of the gross abuse of public trust that this woman has undertaken. (This woman should never, ever have been a judge)
 
8 incidents from 24 to 48 years ago?

12 years suspended except for 1 year and 1 day, sexual abuse registry (assuming the SOL hasn't completely elapsed).

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Disbar the judge, 1 year suspended sentence.
 
8 incidents from 24 to 48 years ago?

12 years suspended except for 1 year and 1 day, sexual abuse registry (assuming the SOL hasn't completely elapsed).

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Disbar the judge, 1 year suspended sentence.
 
Loss Leader is clearly hardline and wants double sentences for both parties. :)
 
sunmaster14 said:
Both cases lack important context (particularly Case B), so I'm not sure what you're on about, but here goes.

Case A: Sentenced to two years for each count, but with the sentences running concurrently (so two years total). Lapse in time since the commission of the crimes and the age of the defendant are mitigating factors.

Case B: Disbarment, plus fine equal to 10% of annual salary, plus 6mth suspended sentence.
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Sorry, I accept the criticism but I was a bit pushed for time when posting the OP. The barrister/judge was a friend of the wife and she sort of took her side when she fell out with her H who ran off with another woman. The wife, wanting revenge, leaked the story about how she took points for the husband. I should have mentioned the husband was a well-known politician and the wife a pretty well-respected and well-known economist. So the story was of interest. A rival politician got the police involved and they took a statement from the judge in which she told them that the wife had confided in her about taking the points all those years ago (that happen in 2003). What the judge did not disclose was that she had a dog in the fight in that she wanted to bring about the husband's downfall and she had played a part in getting the story into the press, a fact she lied about. The result was her evidence was tossed before trial of the H & W. Those two were convicted and jailed (6 months and 8 months I think) for screwing around with the speeding offence and then the law turned to the judge lady. Her first trial resulted in a hung jury. Yesterday she was convicted at her re-trial and today she was sentenced.
 
Death and death, respectively. Case A also gets damnatio memoriae, to counter his apparent fame.
 
anglolawyer said:
<snip>

Those two were convicted and jailed (6 months and 8 months I think) for screwing around with the speeding offence and then the law turned to the judge lady. Her first trial resulted in a hung jury. Yesterday she was convicted at her re-trial and today she was sentenced.
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A nice example of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Did the wife not expect to be punished?
 
sunmaster14 said:
A nice example of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Did the wife not expect to be punished?
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That is indeed the great mystery. It may be she thought the effect would be limited to him losing his political career. The funny thing is she relied on the help of a *********** judge who should have been able to warn her not to be so stupid.
 
Case A: 14 year suspended sentence and serve 2 years. Appropriate offender registry. Sincere hope that he and his estate lose everything in civil suits.

Case B: Disbarment, some months sentenced with some suspended (is that even a thing? Can that be done?), and I'm not sure if fines are within the power, but, fines.

EDIT: Reading other replies it seems you can sever some time and suspend other. Good to know.
 
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tyr_13 said:
Case A: 14 year suspended sentence and serve 2 years. Appropriate offender registry. Sincere hope that he and his estate lose everything in civil suits.

Case B: Disbarment, some months sentenced with some suspended (is that even a thing? Can that be done?), and I'm not sure if fines are within the power, but, fines.

EDIT: Reading other replies it seems you can sever some time and suspend other. Good to know.
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Yes, you can impose a prison sentence and suspend part of it so when the offender comes out they are still at risk under the suspended part should they reoffend.

The PR guy is being taken apart as we speak with all his (quite famous) clients deserting him in droves. I doubt there will be much of the guy's property left unless he has had the good sense (few do) to separate his business and personal finances and put stuff away for a rainy day.
 
anglolawyer said:
:D Ah you always say death. The monkey kingdom evidently knows nothing of proportionality.
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On the contrary, my sentencing is always precisely judged to protect society. The basis of crime is when individuals hold themselves more important than society and thus violate the rules. This sort of thing can only really be corrected by permanent removal from the species. However, there are a few minor crimes, like murder, that occur not because the perpetrator is unsuitable for society but because the victim is. So if they can prove in court that the victim deserved it, I sentence murderers to receive a generous cash reward.
 
A: Two years per offence, served consecutively. The usual supervision regime if released.
Lapse in time since the commission of the crimes and the age of the defendant are not mitigating factors; getting away with a crime, especially using power and influence to do so are no mitigation.

B: Attack on the justice system, seven years per offence served consecutively. Disbarment.
 
TragicMonkey said:
On the contrary, my sentencing is always precisely judged to protect society. The basis of crime is when individuals hold themselves more important than society and thus violate the rules. This sort of thing can only really be corrected by permanent removal from the species. However, there are a few minor crimes, like murder, that occur not because the perpetrator is unsuitable for society but because the victim is. So if they can prove in court that the victim deserved it, I sentence murderers to receive a generous cash reward.
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All hail Judge Death!
 
In the case of the PR man, I am going to take the unusual step of saying that I think the judge got it about right. The balance between punishing a paedophile, and keeping a now-harmless old man in prison, is a fine one, in my view. Those who haven't should read the full judgement, which apart from a couple of bits of really poor English, is a real eye-opener.

Both cases result in the complete destruction of reputation and career for the individuals concerned, and the length of prison sentence is quite secondary to that, I reckon.
 
anglolawyer said:
.....Case A - 71 year old, very successful and well-known PR man and publicist convicted on 8 counts of sexual assault committed between 1966 and the early 80s. Youngest victim 15. .......
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The youngest victim was 12.

 
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He couldn't be prosecuted on the case of the 12 year old because it happened in Spain (at a time before the law allowed these cases to be prosecuted here). But the judge was convinced that it occurred.

A sexual assault allegation against Clifford involving a girl of 12 said to have occurred in Spain would also have been charged had legislation allowed, the court heard. Judge Leonard said he was sure that Clifford had assaulted her in a whirlpool bath. The woman was in court to see Clifford’s sentence handed down and cried when the judge raised her case.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ntenced-to-eight-years-in-prison-9314642.html

ETA don't click the link if you don't want to know the sentence.
 
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