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Yet, Another UFO Video

Patricio Elicer

Obsessed with Reality
Patricio Elicer
Joined
Aug 6, 2001
Messages
4,633
Location
Santiago, Chile
This video clip was presented to me by a UFO believer as irrefutable proof of a close encounter with an alien ship. It was supposedly filmed by Russian cosmonaut Musa Manarov in 1991 from the MIR space station.

The unmistakable clue of intelligent origin, I was told, is that the "ship" ignites its rocket engine at the end of the footage.

I have reasons to think it's not a space vehicle, but what is it?. I have searched for Manarov comments on this, but have found nothing. Anyone knows?, just curious.

http://media.putfile.com/ovniDesdeMir
 
Patricio Elicer said:
This video clip was presented to me by a UFO believer as irrefutable proof of a close encounter with an alien ship.
Click to expand...
That's very interesting! Certainly no irrefutable proof of a close encounter with an alien ship, because there isn't enough evidence to identify it as such. As far as I know it's still an unidentified flying object.

From here:
COSMONAUT MUSA MANAROV, MIR:
MIR mission 1991

It happened during a visit mission, when all our attention was focused on the slowly approaching space capsule. I was close to the great porthole, from where I could see our approaching visitors. I watched everything very carefully… When the capsule came closer, I filmed it with a professional Betacam camera. Suddenly I noted something below the spaceship, which first looked like a kind of antenna. Only when I looked closer and analyzed the situation, I realized that there was no antenna at all. But first I thought it was a part of the construction. But then this element started to move. It moved away from the ship. So I grabbed the radio and told them: “Hey, Boys, you are losing something.”

This, of course, alarmed them. With all my experience especially with docking maneuvers in space I can tell you that especially in this phase simply nothing can break off at all. If something would have been loose, it would have been torn off long before, during the launch, the maneuvers, the turn, all these much more energetic flight phases. Now we were just gliding slowly towards each other, without any pressure on the capsule.

But then this “something” started to remove downwards. When it flew away, it attracted all our attention. It looked like if it was rotating. It was difficult to estimate its dimensions. If it was close or far away I could not say, it was in free sight, and in space it is difficult to estimate any size and distance. I can only say for sure that it was not very close, since I set the camera for infinity. If it would have been just a screw or something close to us, it would have been out of focus. The object was quite far away. In any case at least 300 feet, since this was the distance of the space capsule, and I had the impression that it was beyond it.

It is possible that it was a kind of UFO. We can't say with any certainty what it was. It was definitely not a bigger piece of space junk, no rocket part or so, since this would have been located… the space surveillance, ours and the American, locate all bigger objects in space. They are followed, for every minute we know their position and flight direction. If such an object would have come so close to the MIR, they would have located it and informed us.

I don't think it was a piece of space junk or debris. There is a lot of that in the Earth orbit - Satellite parts, rocket parts, just everything- but our space surveillance locates them, and according to them there was nothing…
 
After five minutes of waiting for it to load over a DSL connection, I gave up.

Must be part of the government conspiracy to hide the evidence.
 
thanks, Dredred. Now I have a headache from trying to focus on it!

I'll try watching it in a darker room later. It is too brightly-lit in here to see much of anything.
 
Re: Re: Yet, Another UFO Video

Originally posted by Dredred

.... But then this element started to move. It moved away from the ship. .....
...
....

...It is possible that it was a kind of UFO. We can't say with any certainty what it was.....
Click to expand...
Wow!, this is becoming interesting. Thanks for the article, that was what I was looking for, but it doesn't clear things up.
 
Patricio Elicer said:
This video clip was presented to me by a UFO believer as irrefutable proof of a close encounter with an alien ship. It was supposedly filmed by Russian cosmonaut Musa Manarov in 1991 from the MIR space station.

The unmistakable clue of intelligent origin, I was told, is that the "ship" ignites its rocket engine at the end of the footage.

I have reasons to think it's not a space vehicle, but what is it?. I have searched for Manarov comments on this, but have found nothing. Anyone knows?, just curious.

http://media.putfile.com/ovniDesdeMir
Click to expand...

I found this document that could be talking about this video although the dates are not the same. Of course, one has to wonder if the date given by the video is correct or the discussion in the document is after the viewing a broadcast of the video (and not the date the video was taken). I could not see any "ignition" of a rocket engine on the UFO. I did see a pulsing light but this could easily have been the sun reflecting off the object. My GUESS is that it is space debris of some kind. It could have been very small and close or large and distant. However, drawing the conclusion that it is "proof" of UFOs being intelligently operated spacecraft is quite the reach.
 
Re: Re: Yet, Another UFO Video

Astrophotographer said:
I could not see any "ignition" of a rocket engine on the UFO. I did see a pulsing light but this could easily have been the sun reflecting off the object.
Click to expand...
I agree. The pulsing light is seen on both ends of the object. Also, it doesn't seem to move after the purported rocket ignition. But for some UFO believers that light is enough evidence.
 
OK, this is definitely space junk. There is no ignition that i saw, although there were many instances of bright reflection off of the surface.
 
I can't get it to play. And I refuse to ever put RealPlayer on my computer! :(
 
(YABUV) Yet Another Boring UFO Video

Patricio Elicer said:
This video clip was presented to me by a UFO believer as irrefutable proof of a close encounter with an alien ship.
Click to expand...
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" - Inigo Montoya, "The Princess Bride"

Allow me to refute,
It was supposedly filmed by Russian cosmonaut Musa Manarov in 1991 from the MIR space station.
Click to expand...
Provenance, provenance, provenance. Don't these UFO folks know anything about keeping accurate records of what they have?
The unmistakable clue of intelligent origin, I was told, is that the "ship" ignites its rocket engine at the end of the footage.
Click to expand...
Let's see how many things we can find wrong with this picture.
- What "ship"? There are only three pieces of evidence about the object's size. Manarov's comment about the focus of the camera means it's not very close. The glints of sunlight indicate a fairly rapid rate of rotation -- from 5 to 20 rpm, depending on how many flat surfaces we're seeing. That would tend to indicate an object far smaller than a "ship." Lack of radar tracking confirms that it's not particularly large.
- For years we've been being told about magnetic levitation, zero-point energy, flashes of light that move and maneuver at unheard-of speed, and superior alien technology ... and now they use rockets? Puh-leeze. Excuse me while I die laughing. Pick your lie and stick to it, you're not allowed to change midstream like that.
- Most rockets that are used in vacuum are nearly invisible. (Apparently not alien ones, though.) But the ones that are produce a plume, not just a bright glowy spot. Oh, I forgot. These are alien rockets.
- There's no apparent motion of the object when the "rocket" fires.
- The tape conveniently cuts right after the first "rocket" fire and ends in the middle of the second. No chance for us to see what happens afterwards. (One would assume the cosmonaut continued to film as the "ship" moves away.)
- If it must be a rocker thingie, why is it not a terrestrial rocket thingie? How is this irrefutably alien?
- I have watched space junk for 20 years. There's nothing about this video that suggests anything other than a small to medium piece of junk, rotating about its long axis, reflecting sunlight. One can even watch the precession of the object (although it's very slow and only apparent after each cut). Every once in awhile it produces a sunglint from a flat surface on the end.
I have reasons to think it's not a space vehicle, but what is it?. I have searched for Manarov comments on this, but have found nothing. Anyone knows?, just curious.
Click to expand...
I have every reason to think it's not a space vehicle. Since it's clearly in the same orbit as Mir it's unlikely to be a piece of space junk from something not related to Mir, either from Mir itself, from the Soyuz, from a previous Soyuz, from a Progress cargo ship. It could have become dislodged as Mir maneuvered to prepare for docking. It could be a something as massive as a tool or piece of metal, or as light as a piece of MLI.

If that's the best the UFO crowd can come up with for irrefutable, they're a sorry bunch. I've always felt contempt for them, after this it's become pity.

- Timothy
 
Re: (YABUV) Yet Another Boring UFO Video

Timothy said:
Let's see how many things we can find wrong with this picture.
- What "ship"? There are only three pieces of evidence about the object's size. Manarov's comment about the focus of the camera means it's not very close. The glints of sunlight indicate a fairly rapid rate of rotation -- from 5 to 20 rpm, depending on how many flat surfaces we're seeing. That would tend to indicate an object far smaller than a "ship." Lack of radar tracking confirms that it's not particularly large.
- For years we've been being told about magnetic levitation, zero-point energy, flashes of light that move and maneuver at unheard-of speed, and superior alien technology ... and now they use rockets? Puh-leeze. Excuse me while I die laughing. Pick your lie and stick to it, you're not allowed to change midstream like that.
- Most rockets that are used in vacuum are nearly invisible. (Apparently not alien ones, though.) But the ones that are produce a plume, not just a bright glowy spot. Oh, I forgot. These are alien rockets.
- There's no apparent motion of the object when the "rocket" fires.
- The tape conveniently cuts right after the first "rocket" fire and ends in the middle of the second. No chance for us to see what happens afterwards. (One would assume the cosmonaut continued to film as the "ship" moves away.)
- If it must be a rocker thingie, why is it not a terrestrial rocket thingie? How is this irrefutably alien?
- I have watched space junk for 20 years. There's nothing about this video that suggests anything other than a small to medium piece of junk, rotating about its long axis, reflecting sunlight. One can even watch the precession of the object (although it's very slow and only apparent after each cut). Every once in awhile it produces a sunglint from a flat surface on the end.
Click to expand...
That's almost exactly the same rationale I came up with when debating the UFO advocate who set out to rub his "irrefutable evidence" in my nose.
 
Timothy: yes.

It seems the only thing that makes the astronaut believe it was something other than space junk was that mission control would have detected it and warned them:
It was definitely not a bigger piece of space junk, no rocket part or so, since this would have been located… the space surveillance, ours and the American, locate all bigger objects in space. They are followed, for every minute we know their position and flight direction. If such an object would have come so close to the MIR, they would have located it and informed us.

I don't think it was a piece of space junk or debris. There is a lot of that in the Earth orbit - Satellite parts, rocket parts, just everything- but our space surveillance locates them, and according to them there was nothing…
Click to expand...
According to wikipedia, space debris is tracked via a catalogue of approximately 10,000 known pieces of junk, discovered by radar and ground/space-based telescope data - which unfortunately is only a tiny proportion of the c.330,000,000 pieces of stuff that are also up there.

Sounds to me like said astronaut has been wilfully, and arguably necessarily, misinformed as to the capability of mission control to foresee and prevent space debris mishaps; which, if this is indeed the case, invalidates his assertion that "it was definitely not a bigger piece of space junk".

Not to mention the fact that, even if mission control were usually able to track this thing from the ground, given a straight choice between "someone on the ground messed up" and "there is an alien intergalactic spaceship cavorting before out very eyes", I think the most likely explanation is clear.
 
Looks to me like somebody dropped their flashlight. Look at the last six seconds of the film.
 
Luke T. said:
Looks to me like somebody dropped their flashlight. Look at the last six seconds of the film.
Click to expand...
Heh, yeah, I see what you mean. Could be pareidolia, but it does look pretty torchlike in that section of the film.

But as I understand the story, there was no-one outside for that manoeuver - it was a docking procedure. Also, the light isn't visible at the end of the object for much of the film, whereas the lightsource is clearly coming from the left, and at several places (e.g. 42 secs in) illuminates the whole of that side of the object. So I'd still say all the light on the object is just reflected.

Doesn't stop it being an old torch though, which had run out of batteries but would still reflect more light at the bulb end.
 
Nucular said:
It seems the only thing that makes the astronaut believe it was something other than space junk was that mission control would have detected it and warned them:According to wikipedia, space debris is tracked via a catalogue of approximately 10,000 known pieces of junk, discovered by radar and ground/space-based telescope data - which unfortunately is only a tiny proportion of the c.330,000,000 pieces of stuff that are also up there.
Click to expand...
We must be careful to distinguish classes of space junk. The quote about it not being a "bigger piece of space junk, no rocket part or so" ... is quite correct. Here we're talking about objects like spent second stages, the size of automobiles. Objects range down in size from there to flecks of paint to get your 330,000,000 figure (a fleck of paint put a pit several mm deep into the window of one of the shuttles years ago).

The cosmonaut was quite right to be concerned about an unknown object due to possibility of collision. Because it *is* hard to gauge distance, hence size, in space. But to jump to UFO right away ... I'm hoping it was a translation error.

If it *was* from Mir, the reason that it was not radar tracked is quite plausible. While the current public story is that ground radar can track an orbiting object 10 cm across, we're talking about a single 10 cm object with nothing nearby! If your limit of resolution is 10 cm with no background, please explain how you can distinguish a slowly moving object that appears to be about 50 cm max right next to (or possibly in front of) two huge spaceships? (Mir and Soyuz) There's really no puzzle other than what loose object floated away.

The cosmonaut seems to be talking about the capability to detect an approaching piece of debris (no background) which is a real concern, and something that would be detected if above a certain size --- and not thinking about a recently detatched piece of debris, which neither countries' radar would have been able to detect, obscured by the signatures of Mir and Soyuz.

- Timothy
 
More observations:

Watching carefully early in the video, you can see the a reflection travel up a flat surface three times in a row. Might have a roughly square cross section and be rotating about the long axis.

You can see direct sun reflections once or twice from the sides ... same yellowy-orang-y color as the purported rocket flame.

The two times we see the sun relection off the left end, the object is in the same orientation, naturally.

If it's about the same distance away as Mir, it's only about a foot long. (scaled from the 4.15m diameter).
 
Timothy said:
More observations:

Watching carefully early in the video, you can see the a reflection travel up a flat surface three times in a row. Might have a roughly square cross section and be rotating about the long axis.
Click to expand...

I was going to go with the "somebody dropped their cordless phone" joke, but went with the flashlight instead. Dammit!

It appears to be flared, or wider, on each end than in the middle.

At about 40 seconds, there is a whitish flash just beneath and behind the object. I don't know if it is a part of the object that is only briefly illuminated, or if it is a reflection off the recorder's window. It is there just for a split second just as the object flashes at it's brightest.
 
Patricio Elicer said:
This link provides a better image. Just be patient to wait for the video to start, it took 3 or 4 minutes for me.
Click to expand...

Thank you, that link worked for me.

What I saw looked like a rectangular piece of debris rotating and catching the reflection from the sun.
 
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