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WW2 Propaganda:70 Years Later The Lies Continue

Mondial

Critical Thinker
M
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
Messages
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When discussing the nazi invasion of Poland on September 1 1939 many media reports leave out the fact that it was a two front attack as the USSR also invaded that country on September 17 1939 according to the protocols of the nazi-soviet non aggression pact. Stalin is equally as culpable for the start of the war as Hitler but not according to the "history" channel and other biased media. Britain and France declared war on Germany but not the Soviet Union. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland
In 1939 France invaded Germany. They sent troops and tanks into the Saar region in an attempt to help their Polish ally. France invaded Germany first but the media call Germany the "aggressor" in the conflict between these two countries - http://warandgame.wordpress.com/2008/09/10/french-invasion-of-the-saar-september-1939
I have heard it expressed in the media that Operation Barbarossa was an attack on a "neutral" and "peaceful" USSR. The Soviets invaded Poland in 1939 and Finland later that same year. In 1940 Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were taken over and in Romania the provinces of Bukovina and Bessarabia were annexed. Over 20 million people were forced to live under Stalinist occupation. Not a bad feat for a "neutral" country! Some historians contend that the nazi attack was a pre emptive strike to forestall a Soviet invasion of Germany. They include Victor Suvorov www.ihr.org/jhr/v17/v17n4p30_Michaels.html and Igor Bunich http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Bunich Joachim Hoffman has also supported this view in his book STALIN'S WAR OF EXTERMINATION.
The media contend that Adolf Hitler made a mistake by declaring war on the USA. The American government, under the leadership of the pathological liar FDR, was already in a state of war with Germany. His administration, while falsely claiming neutrality, gave billions of dollars in arms and ammunition to Britain and the USSR. A month before Pearl Harbor Roosevelt gave mass murderer Joseph Stalin a 1 billion dollar loan - interest free with no repayments until after the war. 6 months before Pearl Harbor he ordered the depth charging of German and Italian submarines in international waters. At the Atlantic Charter meeting Roosevelt said to Churchill "I may wage war, but I may never declare war". In the week before Pearl Harbor the Roosevelt administration was revealed to have a plan in operation to attack Germany and Italy with a US invasion of Europe. This plan was called "Rainbow 5" - www.strike-the-root.com/72/davies/davies9.html Because of Roosevelt and his supporters warmongering ways the US was in a state of war with Germany anyway. Hitler's decision to declare war simply made it a formality. Germany's declaration of war against the USA -www.ihr.org/jhr/v08/v08p389_Hitler.html
Book by Benjamin Colby on the warmongering and lies of Roosevelt called TWAS A FAMOUS VICTORY www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/Twas%20A%20Famous%20Victory_full.pdf
 
So the nazis were the victims? I guess those Frenchys got what they deserved didn't they?

Nobody ever says the soviets were innocent and every history book I've ever read does point out that the Russians invaded Poland after Germany.

Overall nobody in their right mind would say the nazis were the good guys.
 
I wouldn't call such ommissions lies. Simplifying history for public consumption is fairly common.

The USSR's involvement was extremely complicated. During the course of the war they were actually at war with Japan and Finland on two seperate occasions each. They were allied with Germany (sort of) then at war with them. Although they ended up being allied with GB and the US, they are rarely included as one of the "Allies". As soon as the war was over, they became the enemy, and remained so for almost fifty years.

This isn't something that can easily be explained without going into some pretty deep issues. Heck, when I was a kid, it confused me that the US fought both Japan and Germany.
 
Whats your point?

Theres no revision here. None of this is secret and (unlike holocaust deniers) nobody is trying to say that any of that isnt true. It is.

Russia has always been regarded as an aggressor ( actual and potential) ( that hasnt changed- they just tripped in the 80's and fell down)

Yes the US aided those it sided with in arms, money and military support ( we still do)

yes the US makes battle plans well in advance for potential enemies ( we still do- certainly you dont think we wait until attacked to start thinking how to respond do you?)

All nations do this. Always have and always will.

Hell, I've been a part of some of this "support" in SW Asia and South America

whats your point?
 
aggle-rithm said:
The USSR's involvement was extremely complicated. During the course of the war they were actually at war with Japan and Finland on two seperate occasions each. They were allied with Germany (sort of) then at war with them.
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Indeed. In the run-up to the (European part of the) war, there were clearly three major parties. First, the UK and France - though they sometimes had differing views, they always came to a consensus standpoint to the rest of the powers. Secondly, there's Germany with Italy as its sidekick. And thirdly, there's the Soviet Union.

Stalin was suspicious of everyone. Not long ago, English and French troops had invaded the nascent SU. Hitler quite clearly had it in for the SU. Let's also not forget how a German-Russian war ended the last time. He talked with both to look who offered him the best deal.

Munich played a big part in his decision to cut a deal with Nazi Germany. Stalin was left out of that conference, and they gave away part of the territory of an ally of his - Czechoslovakia and the SU had a military alliance. He interpreted this as that the Western Allies tried as much as possible to get Hitler's attention to the East. Talks with the UK ambassador in Moscow also amounted to nothing substantial in his opinion.

So, in the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, Nazi Germany and the SU divided their spheres of influence in Eastern Europe. With the eastern half of Poland in the SU sphere, the starting position of Barbarossa was at least 200 miles further away from Moscow than in case Germany had occupied entire Poland.

That is not condoning that the SU did this, and certainly not how badly they treated the Poles (e.g., Katyn). But it does explain what happened. And it also shows that it's foolish to try to paint the SU as the big aggressor in this case. Hitler was going to invade Poland, and after that the SU, anyhow, that is clear from his moves and from his words.
 
In a 1941 address Roosevelt claimed to be in possession of a map which purported to show a plan for a nazi takeover of South America. The map actually came from the British government and was totally bogus. Hitler and the nazis had no plans to invade South America or North America. Another pack of lies from Roosevelt - www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p125_Weber.html
 
Amazing. Some people actually consider what the IHR writes seriously, almost as if they weren't a gang of holocaust-denying neo-nazis whose relationship to "history" is about the same as the flat earth's society relationship to "geography".

Tell us again how the holocaust never happened, Mondial!
 
Mondial said:
In a 1941 address Roosevelt claimed to be in possession of a map which purported to show a plan for a nazi takeover of South America. The map actually came from the British government and was totally bogus. Hitler and the nazis had no plans to invade South America or North America. Another pack of lies from Roosevelt - www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p125_Weber.html
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... and that, folks, is how we know the holocaust never took place.
 
Too bad there can't be serious responses on this forum that actually address Mondial's assertions.

Hitler invading Poland and the USSR was terrible, unconscionable, and a disaster for Europe. But yes, I think it's probably true that the Soviet Union being part of the invasion of Poland is de-emphasized or even not mentioned sometimes. The Soviet Union didn't go into Poland until 3 weeks after the Germans I believe. (not positive) so perhaps that's one reason it's perceived as a German invasion.

We hear about the Katyn Forest Massacre by the Soviet Union, but what's never said, is that the Nazis are partly responsible because they made a pact with the USSR allowing them to invade Poland.

Mondial's assertions about Roosevelt lying to promote war with Germany: If you're sceptical of right wing sources stating that, then read A People's History of the United States. The author Howard Zinn says the same thing.
 
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Roosevelt made the statement "Several of my best friends are communist". Communism means a one party state, a dictatorship, secret police, prison camps, press censorship etc. It is alien to the American way of life yet Roosevelt thought it was okay. What does that tell you about the man? It tells me he used democracy to further the aims of communism. After the Teheran conference in 1943, Roosevelt said of the mass murdering Soviet tyrant "Stalin is my brother". www.geocities.com/mark_willey/fdr.html
 
Budly said:
Hitler invading Poland and the USSR was terrible, unconscionable, and a disaster for Europe. But yes, I think it's probably true that the Soviet Union being part of the invasion of Poland is de-emphasized or even not mentioned sometimes. The Soviet Union didn't go into Poland until 3 weeks after the Germans I believe. (not positive) so perhaps that's one reason it's perceived as a German invasion.
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Well, it was certainly mentioned at the official commemoration today in Poland.
Polish President Lech Kaczynski has voiced his anger at the Soviet role in World War II at commemorations marking the beginning of the global conflict.
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In 1939 France invaded Germany. They sent troops and tanks into the Saar region in an attempt to help their Polish ally. France invaded Germany first but the media call Germany the "aggressor" in the conflict between these two countries -
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France had been at war with Germany for several days when the "invasion" took place.
Ouch.The Stupid of using this an example of "aggression against Germany" hurts bigtime.
And it was not much of an invasion.,anyway.
 
Budly said:
Hitler invading Poland and the USSR was terrible, unconscionable, and a disaster for Europe. But yes, I think it's probably true that the Soviet Union being part of the invasion of Poland is de-emphasized or even not mentioned sometimes. The Soviet Union didn't go into Poland until 3 weeks after the Germans I believe. (not positive) so perhaps that's one reason it's perceived as a German invasion.

We hear about the Katyn Forest Massacre by the Soviet Union, but what's never said, is that the Nazis are partly responsible because they made a pact with the USSR allowing them to invade Poland.
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Wait-a-minute. So you agree the Nazis started WW2. You even give them partly blame for Katyn, which was unequivocally a Soviet atrocity. But they didn't round up and murder the Jews?

Colour me puzzled.
 
ddt said:
Wait-a-minute. So you agree the Nazis started WW2. You even give them partly blame for Katyn, which was unequivocally a Soviet atrocity. But they didn't round up and murder the Jews?

Colour me puzzled.
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Very few deniers acknowledge the Nazi responsibility for starting WWII. Rather than be puzzled, I'd give him credit for bucking the stereotype in that regard, though I wonder if he does not make this concession to present an appearance of objectivity regarding his HD claims.

- woolfe
 
woolfe99 said:
Very few deniers acknowledge the Nazi responsibility for starting WWII. Rather than be puzzled, I'd give him credit for bucking the stereotype in that regard, though I wonder if he does not make this concession to present an appearance of objectivity regarding his HD claims.
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That was my impression of deniers too, so we agree here. Budly gets points for originality here, but the arguments in, e.g., the photo-thread are so ludicrous that that objectivity are long gone - IMHO.
 
Mondial said:
Roosevelt made the statement "Several of my best friends are communist". Communism means a one party state, a dictatorship, secret police, prison camps, press censorship etc. It is alien to the American way of life yet Roosevelt thought it was okay. What does that tell you about the man? It tells me he used democracy to further the aims of communism. After the Teheran conference in 1943, Roosevelt said of the mass murdering Soviet tyrant "Stalin is my brother". www.geocities.com/mark_willey/fdr.html
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What that tells me about Roosevelt is that he was willing to side with even Stalin to stop you-know-who. Kind of like Winston Churchill who, upon learning that Germany had invaded the USSR and that he was now an ally of Stalin, said "If Hitler invaded hell, I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons".

For some reason, your guy made very few friends in the course of WWII.
 
Budly said:
Too bad there can't be serious responses on this forum that actually address Mondial's assertions.
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Why "too bad"? Nobody who knows anything about history bothers to reply to what the IHR says seriously, for the same reason nobody who knows anything about geography bothers to reply to what flat-earthers say seriously. Replying seriously to such folks just gives them credibility they don't deserve.
 
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