WTC 7: Let's look at the Jennings/Hess timeline more carefully

[ergo]

In this thread, Larry Silverstein explaining what he meant by 'pull it', a discussion began on the timeline of Jennings and Hess getting trapped in WTC 7.


I posted the following:

9/11 bedunkers, please fill in the blanks:


WTC 1 was hit at 8:46 a.m. WTC 2 was hit at 9:03 a.m. WTC 7 was evacuated at 9:30 a.m.

Jennings and Hess arrived at WTC 7 at ______ a.m.

WTC 2 fell at 9:59 a.m., 29 minutes after WTC 7 was evacuated. WTC 1 fell at 10:28 a.m., almost one hour after WTC 7 was evacuated.

Jennings and Hess got trapped in WTC 7 when debris from WTC ____ blew out some lower floors.

.

 

[ergo]

DGM answered:

~9:30am (more toward 9:40)

2

My reply:

How did debris from the destruction of WTC 2 at 9:59 hurl itself into WTC 7 enough to knock out several floors below floor 6, trapping Jennings and Hess? While not hurling itself into any other buildings neighbouring or shielding WTC 7?

This hasn't been answered yet.

 

[000063]

But I do understand. Jennings and Hess were vague about the times. The only way we can really know is to corroborate their observations with known events.

Since the burning buses and cars were not evident until after WTC 1 collapsed, it is impossible for the men to have broken the window before that time.

No amount of wriggling and protestation is going to change that fact. You have already lost the argument and your position has failed.

The only way you could 'prove' yourself correct would be to show a video or photo taken BEFORE the WTC 1 collapse, on Barclay st, showing buses and cars burning.
You can't do that, because it didn't happen that way. You will make up excuse after excuse, but you CANNOT supply the proof you need. But we already did.

You have lost the argument. Give it up.

And here's DC1971 specifically answering the question you say no one answered.

And again... ***sigh***...

WTC7 was set ablaze on several floors. These fires were not dealt with and were left to burn for a period of 7 hours after the collapse of Tower 1. And yes, other buildings were destroyed upon impact of falling debris from Tower 1 and 2. This has already been explained to you several times before and the picture you just posted totally refutes your argument but you insist to keep asking the same questions.... YAAAAAWWWWNNN!!!!

And DGM.

Refresh my memory. What time did you say they arrived?

I really don't see the problem. They arrived before the collapse of the south tower. That tower collapsed while the were going up to the "bunker". On their way back down, the north tower collapsed.

After thinking for a bit, they most likely arrived around 9.50 AM (or so).

Yeah, DGM, I actually posted that same timeline. I was then asked why Barry wasn't at work earlier, and Ergo wondered if he was having coffee. Which I wasn't sure, I didn't ask him.

To be it goes a little something like,

Barry gets to work at around 9:45-9:50. On his way up WTC 2 collapses throwing dust and debris on the ground, since Barry isn't "The flash" I would assume he wouldn't make it up until about 10:00-05. After feeling the ground shake, probably some popping\explosions from WTC 2 coming down, combined with no one in the building, he makes a few phone calls, and is told to get out of the building. We're probably looking at a time pretty close to 10:20-25 right now. Barry starts making his way down, and WTC 1 comes down at 10:28...the rest is history.

If you'd like to carry your drubbing into a new thread, I'm all for it.

 

[ergo]

In fact, if you listen to Barry Jenning's account, you will hear that he was driving in to work when he got the call that a Cessna had flown into WTC 1, and he was directed to go to the OEM on Building 7's 23rd floor. Jennings also states that he was in the building when the second plane hit WTC 2.

When he got there, the OEM was empty, with steam still rising from coffee cups. He and Hess called around and were told they need to get out of there. This had to have been before WTC 7 was officially evacuated, since it was security who had had to let them into the OEM in the first place.

AlienEntity will probably try to post his video here which gives extremely stretched-out timelines that are not credible. So it would be better simply to take the accounts at face value and fit them into a logical timeline.

Here also is Michael Hess's account recorded right after the events:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfiLbXMa64

 

[Edx]

Ergo... because you have refused to address it elsewhere, how do you account for the burning cars if you need these events to have taken place BEFORE both towers have collapsed?

 

[Sabretooth]

So it would be better simply to take the accounts at face value and fit them into a logical timeline.

So let's see your timeline.

 

[ergo]

Ergo... because you have refused to address it elsewhere, how do you account for the burning cars if you need these events to have taken place BEFORE both towers have collapsed?

The burning cars are not explained by dust clouds from the towers' collapses.

Jennings reports that the explosion that blocked them and threw them back in the stairwell blew out the lobby of WTC 7. And that he was hearing explosions going on the entire time.

 

[000063]

Ergo says no one answered his question.
I post a link to people answering his question.
He ignores it.

Is this one of those threads where you just ignore all of the answers so you can quote-mine people and mock them? That hasn't gone so well for you.

...
AlienEntity will probably try to post his video here which gives extremely stretched-out timelines that are not credible.

To you, but you're not exactly objective.

Were not evident to whom?

(Just trying to follow you in your logic here, in the hopes of showing you more clearly why it doesn't matter.)

You're trying to say his logic doesn't matter in the same sentence you say you don't understand it. (And don't try to say you understood it, or you wouldn't need to ask clarifying questions.)

So it would be better simply to take the accounts at face value and fit them into a logical timeline....

Feel free to do so, then. It will be subject to the exact same criticism you feel others' timeline was. Sauce for the goose.

This whole thread is an attempt to reset the timeline of the debate back to the point before your points were defeated.

 

[000063]

Ergo... because you have refused to address it elsewhere, how do you account for the burning cars if you need these events to have taken place BEFORE both towers have collapsed?

The burning cars are not explained by dust clouds from the towers' collapses. ...

So you can't explain it and are gainsaying what you think your opposition's argument is. Got it.

 

[ergo]

Ergo says no one answered his question.
I post a link to people answering his question.
He ignores it.

If even half of what you post were true, discussion could move along much more rapidly.

Please read the question I ask again and understand it. We are talking about debris from WTC 2 entering building 7 and blowing out all the lower floors.

Then, if you still believe someone answered it, please quote their answer. Do not post junk answers. Do not post nonsense. If you don't know how to answer the question, or you don't really understand why you need to, DON'T POST.

 

[njslim]

I Know several people who worked at WTC 7 for Salomon Brothers (part of
Morgan Stanley)

After the plane hit WTC 1 they were ordered out - ordered out by security
manager Rick Rescorla in main offices at WTC 2

Building was empty by 9:30 AM

 

[cantonear1968]

If even half of what you post were true, discussion could move along much more rapidly.

Please read the question I ask again and understand it. We are talking about debris from WTC 2 entering building 7 and blowing out all the lower floors.
Then, if you still believe someone answered it, please quote their answer. Do not post junk answers. Do not post nonsense. If you don't know how to answer the question, or you don't really understand why you need to, DON'T POST.

Why are you making this claim? I do not believe anyone has suggested this to be the case. I'm sure there was some minimal damage to the WTC 7 lobby from the collapse of WTC 2, but Hess and Jennings were still in or near the OEM when this occurred. As according to Hess, there was a power failure while they were there, most likely when WTC 2 collapsed and the power was shut down to the building.

So please, before we move on to anything else within this thread, I would like for you to address what I believe is an erroneous claim on your part:
Why are you claiming the lower floors of WTC 7 were "blown out" by WTC 2? I do not believe anyone here has said that.

 

[000063]

If even half of what you post were true, discussion could move along much more rapidly.

Please read the question I ask again and understand it. We are talking about debris from WTC 2 entering building 7 and blowing out all the lower floors.

Wrong.

several floors below floor 6, trapping Jennings and Hess?

Not "all the lower floors", you said "several floors". If you were unclear, the fault is yours, because "several floors below 6" is not the same as "all the lower floors".

While not hurling itself into any other buildings neighbouring or shielding WTC 7?

It has already been pointed out that several other buildings in the area were damaged. I quoted the post by dc1971. I also seem to have missed the point where you proved it was WTC 2 (South Tower) debris that struck WTC 7 during the period in question.

Then, if you still believe someone answered it, please quote their answer. Do not post junk answers. Do not post nonsense. If you don't know how to answer the question, or you don't really understand why you need to, DON'T POST.

Post #3.

I like how you're already laying the groundwork to dismiss contrary answers as nonsense, which you will inevitably not explain. You'll make the claim, and then never answer requests for evidence. You are also carefully not directly addressing the claims I have already quoted, while implying they are horse feathers.

Yep, you're ignoring the answers so you can quote-mine and mock, like you did with post #8. Notably, you have not attempted to fit events into a logical timeline, as you claim would be the best course of action.

 

[DGM]

DGM answered:

Refresh my memory. What time did you say they arrived?




I really don't see the problem. They arrived before the collapse of the south tower. That tower collapsed while the were going up to the "bunker". On their way back down, the north tower collapsed.*




After thinking for a bit, they most likely arrived around 9.50 AM (or so).

My reply:

How did debris from the destruction of WTC 2 at 9:59 hurl itself into WTC 7 enough to knock out several floors below floor 6, trapping Jennings and Hess? While not hurling itself into any other buildings neighbouring or shielding WTC 7?

This hasn't been answered yet.

I did answer this. It didn't. It was the collapse of the north tower that did the damage.

What time do you believe he arrived?

 

[EventHorizon]

Wrong.

​

Not "all the lower floors", you said "several floors". If you were unclear, the fault is yours, because "several floors below 6" is not the same as "all the lower floors".

​

It has already been pointed out that several other buildings in the area were damaged. I quoted the post by dc1971. I also seem to have missed the point where you proved it was WTC 2 (South Tower) debris that struck WTC 7 during the period in question.

Post #3.

I like how you're already laying the groundwork to dismiss contrary answers as nonsense, which you will inevitably not explain. You'll make the claim, and then never answer requests for evidence. You are also carefully not directly addressing the claims I have already quoted, while implying they are horse feathers.

Yep, you're ignoring the answers so you can quote-mine and mock, like you did with post #8. Notably, you have not attempted to fit events into a logical timeline, as you claim would be the best course of action.

If ergo wants to convert people over to his Church of Truth Movement he should stop posting. His dishonesty is so utterly transparent it would never sway a fence sitter.

 

[plague311]

I posted this from one of Alien's previous posts.

Stating:

I'll give you a citation you should have. 'At approximately 9:44am, after the report of a third aircraft heading the city and news that the Pentagon had been attacked, a Deputy OEM Commissioner ordered the complete evacuation of WTC 7 (Sheirer 2004) This order included the evacuation of the OEM operations center on the 23rd floor. The loss of the OEM operations center created difficulties related to the coordination of emergency responder operations and resources'

NIST NCSTAR 1-8 p 109

I have a distinct feeling you're going to ignore this or just handwave it away as part of the 'conspiracy'. But there it is. Further, did you know that at 9:30am FDNY, EMS established a triage center in the lobby of WTC 7?
(also on p 109 of NCSTAR 1-8)

So the total, and complete evacuation came at 9:44. The building was evacuated before this by the security crew on staff.

The big question here is, what are you expecting to get from this, Ergo? What are you claiming?

No one said WTC 2 fell into WTC7. Why must you tip toe around everything? Just get to the point, what is it you're saying?

 

[OCaptain]

Ergo says no one answered his question.
I post a link to people answering his question.
He ignores it.

Is this one of those threads where you just ignore all of the answers so you can quote-mine people and mock them? That hasn't gone so well for you.

To you, but you're not exactly objective.

​

You're trying to say his logic doesn't matter in the same sentence you say you don't understand it. (And don't try to say you understood it, or you wouldn't need to ask clarifying questions.)

Feel free to do so, then. It will be subject to the exact same criticism you feel others' timeline was. Sauce for the goose.

This whole thread is an attempt to reset the timeline of the debate back to the point before your points were defeated.

Hot Tub Time Machine!!!!

 

[000063]

If ergo wants to convert people over to his Church of Truth Movement he should stop posting. His dishonesty is so utterly transparent it would never sway a fence sitter.

I love that he has to strawman himself.

 

[GlennB]

If ergo wants to convert people over to his Church of Truth Movement he should stop posting. His dishonesty is so utterly transparent it would never sway a fence sitter.

I tend to doubt that he's actively dishonest. His posts strongly suggest that he's utterly incapable of taking in and digesting information that comes his way. A runaway train of impenetrably half-baked ideas.

 

[beachnut]

The burning cars are not explained by dust clouds from the towers' collapses.

Jennings reports that the explosion that blocked them and threw them back in the stairwell blew out the lobby of WTC 7. And that he was hearing explosions going on the entire time.

You are so right, for your fantasy, Judy Woods says beam weapon.
You are in the wrong forum. You have idiotic fantasies about 911 which match your physics expertise.

Barry was under a desk for an hour praying after the first tower collapsed. Don't forget to add the time under the desk praying.

You sure are slow on figuring out 911. Over 10 years and you are diverging from reality, unable to comprehend witnesses are not good witnesses, unless you add logic and knowledge. A skill set 911 truth lacks.