Wow, Non-avian dinosaur DNA?

[Red Baron Farms]

This Paper just came out.

Nuclear preservation in the cartilage of the Jehol dinosaur Caudipteryx

I guess technically what they really did was use a stain that attaches to threads of chromatin. And it dyed the nuclear area of some de-siliconized cells found in a dinosaur fossil.

However, apparently they have not gone further to more finely detect DNA base pairs specifically.

I have been told over and over that is completely impossible. The 1/2 life of DNA is just too short for it to last to the dinosaur ages.

But I was also told actual dinosaur tissue of any sort is impossible to last that long too, and there are more and more preserved dinosaur tissues being found all the time now. Mostly cartilage.

So what to think? Is this a new breakthrough? Or will it be yet another false alarm like the last few?

 

[The Atheist]

So what to think? Is this a new breakthrough? Or will it be yet another false alarm like the last few?

Seems ok to me, but I don't get your thread title of "non-avian dinosaur DNA" when the piece states:

The H&E staining in Caudipteryx revealed cellular structures that (1) share similar morphological characteristics and (2) stain with the same pattern as those in avian chondrocytes

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

Seems ok to me, but I don't get your thread title of "non-avian dinosaur DNA" when the piece states:

Because Caudipteryx itself is not avian. They then compared it to avian DNA for similarities.

 

[Mojo]

Because Caudipteryx itself is not avian.

Well, not very…

 

[Red Baron Farms]

double post sorry

 

[Red Baron Farms]

Seems ok to me, but I don't get your thread title of "non-avian dinosaur DNA" when the piece states:

The H&E staining in Caudipteryx revealed cellular structures that (1) share similar morphological characteristics and (2) stain with the same pattern as those in avian chondrocytes

All modern birds are dinosaurs. So technically I can get modern dinosaur DNA from any chicken! LOL

So to differentiate between birds and the other types of dinosaurs that went extinct, it is common to simply say non-avian. The non-avian dinosaurs went extinct many millions of years longer in the geological past than the length of time DNA can be preserved. So in theory it should be completely impossible to find non-avian dinosaur DNA ever.

However, they really are both dinosaurs. Birds legit are dinosaurs. So in one way the quote from the paper does provide yet more evidence of this! Birds have the same morphological characteristics as dinosaurs not only externally and structurally, but even at the cellular level. It is more evidence that yes birds are indeed dinosaurs. But seeing as Caudipteryx is a non-avian dinosaur from many millions of years ago, then there shouldn't be any surviving DNA. That's what makes this study controversial.

 

[The Atheist]

All modern birds are dinosaurs. So technically I can get modern dinosaur DNA from any chicken! LOL

If anyone ever had doubts about birds being dinosaurs, they'd only need to look at a pukeko (NZ native bird) for a split second to see it.

But seeing as Caudipteryx is a non-avian dinosaur from many millions of years ago, then there shouldn't be any surviving DNA. That's what makes this study controversial.

I'm still scratching my head, because if they're an ancestor of later dinosaurs, they'd have pretty similar DNA, and now it's confirmed.

I suppose it asks the question whether any dinosaurs are actually non-avian.

 

[arthwollipot]

C'mon, let me see you shake your Caudipteryx...

 

[Roboramma]

I suppose it asks the question whether any dinosaurs are actually non-avian.

The answer to that question is yes.

All birds share a common ancestor with all dinosaurs, hence they are members of the same clade.

All birds share a common ancestor with all other birds that isn't shared with many other dinosaurs, hence birds are also members of a (smaller and more recent) clade.

 

[Louden Wilde]

Keep in mind chromatin is mostly protein - that's why proteins (rather than nucleic acids) were thought to be the genetic material for decades.

 

[Delvo]

I suppose it asks the question whether any dinosaurs are actually non-avian.

That's like asking whether any mammals are non-bats (non-chiropteran).

 

[Louden Wilde]

That's like asking whether any mammals are non-bats (non-chiropteran).

That is the perfect analogy.