Would like comments on Animal Homeopathy

[Chocolate Chip]

I am trying to make a co-worker of mine realize what she's doing is the wrong thing in respect to vaccinations for her dogs. She uses homeopathic nosodes instead of yearly vaccines. She's provided me with the website that she got from a breeder and has based her decision on what this site says:

http://www.pawsitivevet.com/faq.htm

Now I have so far pointed out to her that:

1-The first thing this FAQ does is try and turn you against conventional methods. Fear tactics, with no data or percentages.

2-

Nosodes are at least as effective as vaccines, and in some cases have been shown to be significantly more effective than vaccines in preventing infection. They are also considered safer and do not carry with them the potential to induce vaccinosis.

There are absolutely no studies, clinical or otherwise that prove these nosodes actually work in preventing rabies, parvo, etc. It mentions "some cases", "considered safer". But by who? When? It is all too vague to be seriously considered.

3-In the FAQ itself, the homeopathic vet actually says:
"There are no concrete studies yet to show the effectiveness of nosodes for life-threatening diseases such as Parvo and Distemper, although there have been some for the Kennel Cough nosode

Now I pointed out these flaws in the website's FAQ, I told her it seems like "snakeoil" selling to me. I also explained to her that if these nosedes do not work, her dogs are exposed to rabies, parvo, distemper etc. She is then possibly exposing people to this as well. Now I hope I got something through to her. I explained all this in a polite, amiable way as well.

Now, I welcome any suggestions and critques that anyone of you may have in trying to further get the idea through to her. Any and all comments welcome.

 

[Wudang]

Check this thread for starters.

 

[Red Siegfried]

Pretty standard homeopathy BS. Start out by letting everyone know how much the medical industry is in it just for the money.

Next thing you know, they'll ask you to get your dog's fillings removed and sign you up for an iridology session.

In the defense of animal homeopathy, it's a known fact that it works just as well on animals as it does on people. That is to say, it doesn't.

I would be interesting to find out how many pets actually die from said disease after the treatment. But I suppose not too many records are kept on this kind of thing. After all, homeopathic medicine doesn't hurt anything, even if it doesn't work.

Right?

Right?

 

[geni]

It isn't homeopathy (at least in the clasical sense). Homeopathic remedies are ment to deal fit the symptoms if not symptions have appeared this is going to be a little tricky.

 

[Mojo]

They are also considered safer and do not carry with them the potential to induce vaccinosis.

I assume that this is an imaginary condition invented by anti-vaxers and/or homeopaths?

 

[Rolfe]

Well, I'm a vet and I can only tell you my experience. Animals "vaccinated" with nosodes do not produce any measurable antibody, and are fully susceptible to infectious disease. All properly-conducted studies relating to nosodes have found that they have no protective effect, for example one on a lungworm nosode which was summarised as

No antibody could be demonstrated in either group, mortality in both groups was high, and there was no difference in the number or morphology of the worms recovered from the groups post mortem. The conclusion was that "There were no discernable differences between the treated and the control groups in their manifestations of resistance to D. viviparus or their clinical responses to the diseases produced."

Oh, and by the way, the GCCF will not accept "homoeopathic" vaccination in cats entering cat shows.

I'm afraid there are always going to be gullible people who fall for homoeopathic propaganda. In my experience there's little point in arguing with them once you have got them to understand that the preparations have no active ingredient. If they realise that, and still go on asserting that there is an effect, they are probably beyond rational reach.

Fortunately, they only comprise a tiny percentage of the public at large, and have little effect on overall herd immunity, which they will continue to benefit from. If they ever became numerous enough to affect herd immunity, as happened with the MMR refusniks in human medicine, there would be potential for serious disease outbreaks.

By the way, read this.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

I've just been down to the post mortem room to photograph the examination of a puppy which died in the evening after its first vaccination. It had a huge, horrible, bacterial abscess in its abdomen, and the abdomen was full of rank pus. The lesion was quite fibrosed and had obviously been present for at least a week or two. (It's amazing how resilient puppies are - it had only been noted as "a bit quiet" in its pre-vaccination examination.) Death had absolutely nothing to do with the vaccination.

This is typical of these so-called "vaccinosis" cases, except this time the owners consented to a post-mortem (paid for by the vaccine manufacturers) so it was conclusively proved that the death was coincidental. Mostly they just hurl accusations without any causative evidence t all.

Rolfe.

 

[supercorgi]

I am trying to make a co-worker of mine realize what she's doing is the wrong thing in respect to vaccinations for her dogs. She uses homeopathic nosodes instead of yearly vaccines. She's provided me with the website that she got from a breeder and has based her decision on what this site says:

http://www.pawsitivevet.com/faq.htm

Where do you live? In the US, all cats and dogs are required by law to have rabies vaccination. Personally, I don't like mandating vaccinations by law but any responsible pet owner should have their pets vaccinated if they come in contact with other animals.

My beef with this law is that I have 3 house cats -- they never leave the house, they never come in contact with other animals, yet I am required by law to have them vaccinated. The result, I don't bring them to the vets for yearly checkups.

So depending on your local laws, your co-worker, may be breaking the law as well as not protecting her pets.

 

[geni]

Re: Re: Would like comments on Animal Homeopathy

My beef with this law is that I have 3 house cats -- they never leave the house, they never come in contact with other animals, yet I am required by law to have them vaccinated. The result, I don't bring them to the vets for yearly checkups.

No contact? Are you certain that includes rats and mice?

 

[supercorgi]

Re: Re: Re: Would like comments on Animal Homeopathy

No contact? Are you certain that includes rats and mice?

Well...OK...those pesky rodents could slip into the house although I don't have any where I currently live. But how likely is it that a rat or mouse will carry rabies, will get into my house, and will bite my cat? (Can rats and mice even carry rabies?)

I would say at some point the risk becomes so small that it is effectively zero. My vet tries to reason it the same way: "Well what if your cat gets out?" -- then I say that it's highly unlikely that they get out of the house by accident, and then unlikely that they'll be outside long enough to encounter a rabid animal, and then very unlikely that they'll actually encounter a rabid animal.

Yes if I wanted to be 100% sure that my cats won't contract rabies, I'd get them vaccinated. However, I am willing to be 99% sure that my cats won't contract rabies and spare them from unneeded vaccinations and save myself some money. It's a risk I can live with for now.

 

[geni]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Would like comments on Animal Homeopathy

Well...OK...those pesky rodents could slip into the house although I don't have any where I currently live. But how likely is it that a rat or mouse will carry rabies, will get into my house, and will bite my cat? (Can rats and mice even carry rabies?)

Rodents can get rabies just not very common

 

[Mojo]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Would like comments on Animal Homeopathy

Well...OK...those pesky rodents could slip into the house although I don't have any where I currently live.

Believe me, those little b*****s will get in anywhere.

 

[Chocolate Chip]

Just like to say Thanks! to all who have posted here. I have read your links and comments, very much appreciated, great stuff. I will use this added info and show my co-worker. BTW, I'm in Canada (to answer SuperCorgi's question) but I'm pretty sure that the rules as to pet vaccinations are the same as in the States. I would also like to thank anyone in advance if they wish to add anything further.

As you are a vet Rolfe, I will relay your experiences to this person and give her a link to this thread as well.