Will the "I" Word get you arrested?

[SteveGrenard]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Calling for the impeachment of U.S. President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, Cindy Sheehan and 45 fellow Iraq war protesters were arrested on Monday after they refused to leave a U.S. lawmaker's office and adjoining hallway, authorities said.

Before police escorted her away, Sheehan, who emerged as a leading peace activist after her son Casey was killed in Iraq in 2004, announced what she had earlier suggested -- that she would be a candidate for Congress next year.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN2337983820070723


And then this guy was arrested for selling "impeach him" buttons at a farmer's market:

(CBS/AP) A 74-year-old retired mathematician who sells anti-Bush buttons at a Maryland farmers' market has become a symbol of free speech to some people. Others say Alan McConnell is a nuisance.

McConnell was at the market in Kensington as usual yesterday, selling buttons that say "Impeach Him" He has sold the $1 buttons for months; he told The Washington Post he uses the money earned to pay for "Impeach Them Both" yard signs.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/23/national/main3087866.shtml

Town officials had previously warned McConnell about peddling his political wares at the market (he is accused of being "aggressive" in his pitch), and had cited him for selling merchandise without a proper permit.

McConnell was also warned that he would be arrested if he returned to the market, even though it is public property.

Arrested for selling buttons without a permit. Ookay. I wonder how many farmers selling their tomatoes and carrots have permits?

I guess the above news today is why Nancy has ruled out the “I” word. She obviously doesn’t want to get arrested.

 

[Upchurch]

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN2337983820070723

I was guessing trespassing, but the article says "disorderly conduct". Sounds like it was, too.

And then this guy was arrested for selling "impeach him" buttons at a farmer's market:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/23/national/main3087866.shtml

This one makes no sense. He was charged with trespassing, but it was public property. Of the two arrests, I would think they got their charges switched.

 

[Charlie Monoxide]

Perhaps if he was selling buttons that proclaimed "Kill Fags" a la Phelps and his merry band of haters, the button vendor might not have been hassled ...

Charlie (impeach Bush, win valuable prizes!) Monoxide

 

[corplinx]

The answer to your question, is no.

 

[BPSCG]

Washington Post carried a more complete story this past Sunday. It sounds like he was being disruptive.

If the Kensington, MD farmers' market is anything like the Alexandria, VA one - and I bet it is - it's a popular place for people to go on Saturday morning, get some great peaches,

How come Safeway and Giant can't seem to find a good peach, but you go to the farmers' market and you can't find a bad one?

hear some South Americans with guitars and flutes playing music, and generally have a pleasant, relaxed, away-from-the-week's-tensions hour or so. I think most people don't think it's the kind of place where you want to have a guy get in your face demanding you buy a button to impeach Bush.

And I think the vendors there all pay a fee to be allowed to sell their goods. I don't think his free speech includes the right to disrupt their business.

And in case anyone's wondering, Kensington is in Montgomery County, MD, an area where about the only person less popular than Bush is Osama bin Laden. Sorry, Charlie.

 

[geni]

This one makes no sense. He was charged with trespassing, but it was public property. Of the two arrests, I would think they got their charges switched.

Eh you have the right to be there but not the right to trade.

 

[Upchurch]

Eh you have the right to be there but not the right to trade.

but is that "trespassing"? I'd think that would be something along the lines of operating a business without a license.

And it sounds like this was something along the lines of a flea market, which in my rural Missouri experience, has a looser set of laws about such things. (All assuming Maryland's laws on this sort of thing is in any way like MO's and that I really do understand MO's laws.)

 

[ManfredVonRichthoffen]

Washington Post If the Kensington, MD farmers' market is anything like the Alexandria, VA one - and I bet it is - it's a popular place for people to go on Saturday morning, get some great peaches,

How come Safeway and Giant can't seem to find a good peach, but you go to the farmers' market and you can't find a bad one?

hear some South Americans with guitars and flutes playing music, and generally have a pleasant, relaxed, away-from-the-week's-tensions hour or so. I think most people don't think it's the kind of place where you want to have a guy get in your face demanding you buy a button to impeach Bush.

Kensington's is tiny. Maybe 3 tables. Though it's the only one I've found that has sea food. Still I rarely go.

The one in Takoma park is very nice, but right outside it was a table that had a sign which said, "9/11 truth". I steered far clear of it so as not to ruin an otherwise beautiful day.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Arrested for selling buttons without a permit. Ookay. I wonder how many farmers selling their tomatoes and carrots have permits?

If it's an organized farmer's market, then the answer is, all of them.

 

[BPSCG]

Kensington's is tiny. Maybe 3 tables.

Okay. Alexandria's is much bigger - takes up the whole square in front of the city hall.

Here's the lengthy list of rules and regs, just for the vendors.

Photo, which shows only about 2/3 of the market grounds.

The one in Takoma park is very nice, but right outside it was a table that had a sign which said, "9/11 truth". I steered far clear of it so as not to ruin an otherwise beautiful day.

Perfect example of why McConnell ran afoul in Kensington.

 

[Thunder]

Whether you agree with this guy or not, his right to say what he wants should be defended vehemently. Saying things against your government without being in fear of being arrested for it, is exactly why the 1st Amendment was created. If we allow this freedom to be destroyed using bs "tresspassing", and "disorderly conduct" charges, then the freedom will in its essence, be gone. Forcing people who wish to air politically unpopular views into tight corners far away from the public eye, is NOT protecting free speech.

 

[BPSCG]

Whether you agree with this guy or not, his right to say what he wants should be defended vehemently. Saying things against your government without being in fear of being arrested for it, is exactly why the 1st Amendment was created. If we allow this freedom to be destroyed using bs "tresspassing", and "disorderly conduct" charges, then the freedom will in its essence, be gone. Forcing people who wish to air politically unpopular views into tight corners far away from the public eye, is NOT protecting free speech.

Do you think there are no limits to free speech? Does he have the right to aggressively buttonhole customers at the farmers' market and make them uncomfortable shopping there? Beware of saying "yes," because if you do, then aren't you simultaneously acknowledge the right of anti-abortion protesters to aggressively approach women going to an abortion clinic?

 

[WildCat]

but is that "trespassing"? I'd think that would be something along the lines of operating a business without a license.

Perhaps vending in a farmer's market without a permit is tantamount to trespassing?

He wasn't arrested for wearing a button, but for selling them. In a market specifically set up for farmers to sell produce, not for activists to peddle buttons. If that was allowed, what would prevent anyone showing up to sell anything they desired?

eta: law.com defines trespassing as "entering another person's property without permission of the owner or his/her agent and without lawful authority (like that given to a health inspector) and causing any damage, no matter how slight." So it is in fact trespassing from a legal standpoint, as he had no right to vend there.

 

[SteveGrenard]

Wildcat, I thought the Kenington Farmer's market was situated in a public venue. This would be no different than any street pedler seeking out crowds to increase their chance of sales. If the "people" own the property then this is clearly not "another person's property." The property belongs as much to him as it does to anyone else situated on it.

The only reason he didn't have a right to vend anywhere was because he did not have the requisite license or permit and I believe this was the basis for the charges lodged against him, his arrest and his liability to a five hundred dollar fine. On the other hand if the other vendors of this market, selling their tomatoes or whatever, didn't have a license either he could argue he was being singled out for prosecution if not persecution.

 

[marksman]

This would be no different than any street pedler seeking out crowds to increase their chance of sales.

Street peddlers can be required to obtain permits and abide by rules in order to vend in public places.

In First Amendment jurisprudence, these are called "time, place and manner" regulations. For example, it's perfectly legal for a municipality to bar people from setting up stalls in the middle of a sidewalk because it will impede pedestrian traffic.

The municipality converted some public land to a farmer's market and garners fees from the vendors for the right to sell there during market hours. As long as he wasn't denied a permit based on his speech, they have every right to forbid him from selling in the farmers' market without a permit.

Just because land is owned by the people does not mean you cannot trespass upon it. The people own the Smithsonian Museums, but they are still allowed to lock the doors at night, and were I to sneak into the museum, I could be arrested for trespassing. "But I'm a taxpayer -- I own the museum" is not going to serve me well as a defense.

On the other hand if the other vendors of this market, selling their tomatoes or whatever, didn't have a license either he could argue he was being singled out for prosecution if not persecution.

I would be surprised if the other vendors were not licensed.

 

[casebro]

Some farmers markets/street fairs have a blanket permit. like "produce sellers are permitted..." Also, some state have preemtive laws allowing farmers to sell their produce in places other than stores- road side stands or farmers' markets. The same laws may not hold for button sellers. Hmmm, I wonmder about freedom of the press though. Aren't buttons 'pressed'? I know newspapers CAN put machines anydamnplace...

 

[SteveGrenard]

All this tresspassing and farm produce discussion is very interesting but this is not what he was charged with.

They charged him with selling buttons without a permit.

 

[Upchurch]

All this tresspassing and farm produce discussion is very interesting but this is not what he was charged with.

They charged him with selling buttons without a permit.

Well, it all comes down to whether or not he had a right to be there selling things. Ironically, he might have been better off if he had just stood in the market telling anyone who would listen that Congress should impeach Bush.

 

[Psi Baba]

All this tresspassing and farm produce discussion is very interesting but this is not what he was charged with.

They charged him with selling buttons without a permit.

Sheesh! You're the one who brought it up by starting the thread, almost as if to say, "Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help, he's being repressed!" and in this post you're almost completely dismissive about what happened.

I wonder if he would have been bothered for selling buttons that said "I peaches". I doubt it.

 

[SteveGrenard]

Sheesh! You're the one who brought it up by starting the thread, almost as if to say, "Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help, he's being repressed!" and in this post you're almost completely dismissive about what happened.

I wonder if he would have been bothered for selling buttons that said "I peaches". I doubt it.

No, I didn't say or imply that. In reference to the I word, I asked if it could get you arrested as in the two recent cases (and there are others) ...one of Sheehan et al making a plea in front of Conyer's office (he's leaning toward impeachment) and then the button guy.

The charge against him was never disputed and is given in the opening post. Its selling buttons without a permit. Nothing abut where, nothing about trespassing and nothing about produce, or even a free zucchini with each button purchased.

As was pointed out this Md county is heavily anti-Bush. As is also pointed out it is unlikely any of the local people selling their crops had permits to sell produce either. I agree with you that if he were selling any other button like I love squash buttons he probably wouldn't have been arrested.

I don't know if its violence inherent in the system so much as its political bias. This could turn into a free speech issue if his arrest is defended and the case pursued. While the county may not be pro-Bush, the police chief may be.