Will the fundamentalists support this monument?

[Tricky]

It seems that those who want Ten Commandment monuments allowed everywhere are reaping what they have sown.

The Rev. Fred Phelps plans to commemorate the fifth anniversary of Matthew Shepard's murder in his own unique style.

The 73-year-old Topeka, Kan., pastor has designed a granite monument engraved with Shepard's face followed by these words chiseled in the stone: Matthew Shepard Entered Hell October 12, 1998, at Age 21 In Defiance of God's Warning: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination." Leviticus 18:22.

Shepard, a freshman at the University of Wyoming, Laramie, was tied to a fence and beaten into a coma allegedly because he was a homosexual. He died five days later. The murder shocked the nation, leading to pleas for tolerance and education about gay and lesbian issues. The two attackers were sentenced to life in prison.

Phelps, who screamed "God hates fags" at Shepard's funeral here, is demanding his 6-foot-high monument be placed in Casper's City Park not far from where the victim grew up.

Horrified officials in this rural, High Plains community say there is little they can do to stop it.

Why?

Because of the Ten Commandments.

In 1965, the local Eagles Club donated a granite replica of the Ten Commandments that sits in a corner of the park.

Last year, the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver, which also covers Wyoming, said communities displaying such monuments on public property must allow other messages or symbols as well. That includes Phelps' monument.

Do you think that the fanatical supporters of Judge Moore will see the connection between their actions and those of Phelps? I'd say the liklihood is about as great as the possibility that they will convert to Islam tomorrow.

 

[Yahweh]

The 73-year-old Topeka, Kan., pastor has designed a granite monument engraved with Shepard's face followed by these words chiseled in the stone: Matthew Shepard Entered Hell October 12, 1998, at Age 21 In Defiance of God's Warning: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination." Leviticus 18:22.

Who here cant see this as a deliberate anti-gay-because-my-god-tells-me-so propaganda? I think its a disgusting way to "commemorate" (that's obviously not their intention) the anniversery of a death.

Phelps, who screamed "God hates fags" at Shepard's funeral here, is demanding his 6-foot-high monument be placed in Casper's City Park not far from where the victim grew up.

I really dont think they are going to have the monument placed in Casper's City Park, if city parks are owned by the state, I dont think the state is going to finance this "unique" kind of monument, especially when its anti-gay propaganda inspired by religion.

Where are the people who are demanding that this monument be destroyed.

Horrified officials in this rural, High Plains community say there is little they can do to stop it.

Why?

Because of the Ten Commandments.

Bulls**t.

In 1965, the local Eagles Club donated a granite replica of the Ten Commandments that sits in a corner of the park.

Last year, the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver, which also covers Wyoming, said communities displaying such monuments on public property must allow other messages or symbols as well. That includes Phelps' monument.

Get rid of the 10 commandments monument, overturn the Denver Appeals Court decision, get a little integrity, salvage your humility, problem solved (alright, as I'm typing this, there is a "'Worship Together' and buy these crappy Christian music CDs for only US$29.95" commerical playing in the background...). Why do these people insist on overcomplicating every situation large and small?

 

[fishbob]

From the current Pat Robertson idiocy thread over in R&P:

http://home.hamptonroads.com/storie...60920&ran=94312

From the article:
``It's {the State Dept} like an entrenched bureaucracy that has their own agenda, and it doesn't comport with the will of the American people. How do we get rid of them?'' he said during the June interview."

"Doesn't comport with the will of the American people" gets a lot of play among the fundies. There seems to be a belief that if the majority wants it, then the gubmint should do it. This relies on dangerous ignorance of how our constutional system works and Robertson and other fundie leaders are promoting this ignorance. How does the phrase go? Tyranny by majority rule is still tyranny? something like that anyway.

Moore, Phelps, Robertson, etal. will likely keep on chipping away at converting the ignorant by talking as loudly and as often as they can. The fact is that their goal is unconstitutional, and will remain unconstitutional, no matter how many fundies want it.

 

[Peach Jr.]

How sad - that all this is still going on. The Casper city council won't put a stop to it without an awful lot of pressure, and I don't see that happening.

Has anybody heard what the Sheppard family has to say about all this? I would think at least his mother would be talking about it.

 

[MoeFaux]

We talked about this a little in a thread I started last week:
http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28242&highlight=Phelps

It's appalling.

I think Larry King just had Matthew's Mother on a few days ago, perhaps to talk about this.

 

[corplinx]

Words can't express the disgust I feel whenever I see this Phelps guy's stunt of the month. How anyone could ever follow this nutjob is beyond me. Mind you, I was raised in an ultra-conservative southern household and even then I didn't see this sort of outright hatred. Nowadays I am a happy faith-free type so it really isn't my business to say this but I think the silent majority of religious convservative types need to speak up and make sure everyone knows they think this sort of stuff is wrong.

 

[Brown]

Let he who is without sin erect the first stone monument.

Your mission, Mr. Phelps, should you choose to accept it, is to show that you are not a flaming hypocrite. I expect this is probably going to be an impossible mission for you.

 

[Goshawk]

Um, yeah, Phelps is certifiable, and is quite famous for it and for his thoroughly evil "God Hates Fags" website (for those of you who have evidently never heard of him before), and I'm quite certain that the Casper City Council (or whoever) is perfectly aware of that fact.

I wouldn't waste too much time worrying about this statue being erected. Never happen.

 

[Ed]

I wouldn't waste too much time worrying about this statue being erected. Never happen.

Dunno. Sometime erections can surprise you.

 

[Goshawk]

But anyway--Tricky? You're asking, "Will Fundies support this monument?" No way. Even Pat Robertson knows that Fred is seriously mentally ill and, in public at least, won't have anything to do with him.

 

[Suddenly]

But anyway--Tricky? You're asking, "Will Fundies support this monument?" No way. Even Pat Robertson knows that Fred is seriously mentally ill and, in public at least, won't have anything to do with him.

A better follow up question is whether the "Fundies" will object to this monument on grounds other than simple decorum. In other words, are they agreeing with the substance but object to such a stark presentation of their ideas with no consideration to the family of a murder victim.

I wouldn't hold Phelps against "Fundies" on the general principle that we can't be held accountable for every idiot that happens to agree with us, but I can hold against them the failure to object to the substance of the monument.

 

[Zep]

I would suggest that a plaster monument (why plaster? more below) according to Phelps' design actually be put in the park, as he wants. This will satisfy his insane desire to perpetrate his hate message, so he can't complain that "his will hasn't been done".

The "little" modification to the design I propose would be to put Phelps' name and address VERY clearly on this monunent, so that EVERYONE knows who wanted it and why, and where he lives. And I would then call the press and make a big thing of it - make sure the fundy press gets loads of pictures, national coverage, etc, etc.

Of course, it will outrage the vast majority of the population that have to live with it, so I would expect that in only a few days some anonymous people will bust it to smithereens and make sure it is removed. Without city council approval. And Phelps will attract all the ire of the country as well.

This would demonstrate to the world not only the disdain that even conservative little Casper holds for Phelps and his ilk, it would also demonstrate the same to PHELPS himself. Not that he would take note, of course.

Aaah! I like to dream...

 

[Tricky]

But anyway--Tricky? You're asking, "Will Fundies support this monument?" No way. Even Pat Robertson knows that Fred is seriously mentally ill and, in public at least, won't have anything to do with him.

Well, it was sort of a sarcastic rhetorical question. Of course I know that few but the most fanatical fundies will support this, and certainly not Robertson or Falwell or any of the well known bible-thumpers. Scarily, though, there are still quite a few of those radical fundies who do things like supporting murderers who kill abortion doctors. In fact you can still hear a few of the homophobic ones claiming that AIDS is God's punisment to homosexuals.

What I am really wondering is if anybody will rally to Phelp's defense. Will there be marches and candelight vigils in Casper like there were in Montgomery, albiet much smaller?

And in the best of all possible scenarios, will they be forced to take the Ten Commandments monument down?

 

[Brown]

The Tenth Circuit opinion in question appears to be this one.

The Free Speech Clause of the First Amendment compels the City of Ogden to treat with equal dignity speech from divergent religious perspectives. On these facts, the City cannot display the Ten Commandments Monument while declining to display the Seven Principles Monument.

The "Seven Principles" are from a religion created in 1975. Basically, this Summum religion wanted to be able to erect its monument right along side the Ten Commandments, but the City of Ogden said no.

The Tenth Circuit had no trouble concluding that the Ten Commandments Monument is religious or "sectarian," despite the district court's ruling that the Ten Commandments Monument is primarily secular in nature. By the way, if you thought the Ten Commandments were a little strange, have a look at the Seven Principles and see if you can understand why the City of Ogden might not want them posted next to the Commandments:

"Creation manifests when balance is perfected between the opposites. By applying higher Law against lower laws, the Creation becomes divine." Summum

THE GRAND PRINCIPLE OF CREATION

"NOTHING AND POSSIBILITY come in and out of bond infinite times in a finite moment." Summum

"The Principles of knowing Creation are Seven; those who know these possess the Magic Key to whose touch all locked doors open to Creation." Summum

THE PRINCIPLE OF PSYCHOKINESIS

"SUMMUM is MIND, Thought:

The Universe is a Mental Creation." Summum

THE PRINCIPLE OF CORRESPONDENCE

"As above, so below; as below, so above." Summum

THE PRINCIPLE OF VIBRATION

"Nothing rests; everything moves; everything vibrates." Summum

THE PRINCIPLE OF OPPOSITION

"Everything is Dual; everything has an opposing point; everything has its pair of opposites; like and unlike are the same; opposites are identical in nature, but different in degree; extremes bond; all truths are but partial truths; all paradoxes may be reconciled." Summum

THE PRINCIPLE OF RHYTHM

"Everything flows out and in; everything has its season; all things rise and fall; the pendulum swing manifests in everything; the measure of the swing to the right is the measure of the swing to the left; rhythm compensates." Summum

THE PRINCIPLE OF CAUSE AND EFFECT

"Every Cause has its Effect; every Effect has its Cause; everything happens according to Law; Chance is just a name for Law not comprehended; there are many fields of causation but nothing escapes The Law." Summum

THE PRINCIPLE OF GENDER

"Gender is in everything; everything has its Masculine and Feminine Principle; Gender manifests on all levels." Summum

 

[Malachi151]

Sweet, I hope the monument goes up, it will be the best thing that ever happend to the anti-Chrisitan movement.

 

[Some Friggin Guy]

I live in Nashville, pretty much the Fundy capitol of the world. You would be surprised how many people I have mentioned this to actually are in FAVOR of it. Ayone looking for a computer netowrking professional in an area a little LESS fundy driven? I'll take the job!

I don't even care how much it pays!


GET ME OUT OF HERE!!!

 

[Zep]

Come to Australia, SFG. Sanityville!

 

[evildave]

FnA.

If it's OK to have the ten C's up, we need monuments to EVERY OTHER religious nutball right along-side it.

We obviously need parks set aside just for these monuments.

Maybe someone could get a Satanist marker right next to the Christian one.

Anybody who can pay $10,000 and $1000 a year maintenance can have their monuments erected, too.

Go ahead and rack up the rate as you get towards the middle and outside edges of the park.

We could call it the 'Park of Fundy Billboards', or some such thing.

 

[rustypouch]

I am thinking that Phelps is a big fan of the cock, and he just doesn't want anyone to know.

 

[Zep]

FnA.

If it's OK to have the ten C's up, we need monuments to EVERY OTHER religious nutball right along-side it.

We obviously need parks set aside just for these monuments.

Maybe someone could get a Satanist marker right next to the Christian one.

Anybody who can pay $10,000 and $1000 a year maintenance can have their monuments erected, too.

Go ahead and rack up the rate as you get towards the middle and outside edges of the park.

We could call it the 'Park of Fundy Billboards', or some such thing.

I do like that idea. Very American. Capitalism, state and church all combined in one dubious moneymaking scheme that makes the whole rest of the world shake it's head in wonder.

You should really go for this before someone else beats you to it, evildave!