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Why/Why not McCain?

Hammer_of_Thor

Thinker
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
164
It looks like McCain will be the GOP nod.
Here is just a small pick of issues about McCain.

From this website http://www.ontheissues.org/John_McCain.htm


Supports repealing Roe v. Wade (May 2007)

Things are tough now, but we're better off than in 2000(Jan 2008)

Leave gay marriage to the states. (Jan 2007)

Teaching creationism should be decided by school districts. (Jun 2007)

Ok with American presence in Iraq for 100 years. (Jan 2008)

Supports federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. (May 2007)

Climate change is real and must be addressed. (Dec 2007)

Preserve and help our National Parks. (Jan 2000)

Prosecute criminals, not citizens for gun ownership. (Sep 2007)

Waterboarding is torture; we're not going to torture people. (Nov 2007)

Refused release to hurt Vietnamese & remain loyal to POWs. (Nov 1999)

Confederate flag on top of capitol was wrong; in front is ok. (May 2007)

How do you feel about these stances?

Why or why not would you vote for McCain?
 
It looks like McCain will be the GOP nod.
Here is just a small pick of issues about McCain.

From this website http://www.ontheissues.org/John_McCain.htm


Supports repealing Roe v. Wade (May 2007)

Things are tough now, but we're better off than in 2000(Jan 2008)

Leave gay marriage to the states. (Jan 2007)

Teaching creationism should be decided by school districts. (Jun 2007)

Ok with American presence in Iraq for 100 years. (Jan 2008)

Supports federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. (May 2007)

Climate change is real and must be addressed. (Dec 2007)

Preserve and help our National Parks. (Jan 2000)

Prosecute criminals, not citizens for gun ownership. (Sep 2007)

Waterboarding is torture; we're not going to torture people. (Nov 2007)

Refused release to hurt Vietnamese & remain loyal to POWs. (Nov 1999)

Confederate flag on top of capitol was wrong; in front is ok. (May 2007)

How do you feel about these stances?

Why or why not would you vote for McCain?

Iraq War. Torture stance is just a way to stand out. I prefer McCain over Hillary, though.
 
Supports federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. (May 2007)

Climate change is real and must be addressed. (Dec 2007)

Preserve and help our National Parks. (Jan 2000)

Waterboarding is torture; we're not going to torture people. (Nov 2007)


The only ones I think are not insane. McCain's stance as a "maverick" is nothing more than media myth-making. He is a loyal Republican who has voted with the President almost every single chance he's had.

I'd rather see a small vial of the ebola virus as President than McCain. It would certainly kill fewer people.
 
I find it odd that some people seem on the fence whether to vote for Hillary or McCain (assuming it comes to those two). Upchurch, whom I respect, is one.

I think many of their stances are quite opposed to each other on most issues. So are the issues no longer important or do other less tangible factors decide the vote for an individual? Why do the less tangible factors outweigh the actual positions and goals of the candidates?
 
It looks like McCain will be the GOP nod.
Here is just a small pick of issues about McCain.

From this website http://www.ontheissues.org/John_McCain.htm


Supports repealing Roe v. Wade (May 2007)

Agree. It's a horrid example of legislating from the bench. Send it back to the states and maybe, maybe one state or two will ban it.

Things are tough now, but we're better off than in 2000(Jan 2008)

Agree.

Leave gay marriage to the states. (Jan 2007)

Agree, but the full faith & credit clause is a problem here.

Teaching creationism should be decided by school districts. (Jun 2007)

Agree. I don't support creationism, and it's junk science. But education has always been a local issue and should remain that way.

Ok with American presence in Iraq for 100 years. (Jan 2008)

Agree strongly. As long as it takes. Nobody really thinks it will be 100 years.

Supports federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. (May 2007)

Disagree. If miracle cures are out there, let private industry find them. This stance has been superseded.

Climate change is real and must be addressed. (Dec 2007)

Somewhat agree. Increase usage of nuclear energy, reduce reliance on foreign oil.

Preserve and help our National Parks. (Jan 2000)

Agree, non-controversial.

Prosecute criminals, not citizens for gun ownership. (Sep 2007)

Agree, non-controversial.

Waterboarding is torture; we're not going to torture people. (Nov 2007)

Moderately disagree but apparently we haven't been doing this for the last several years, since part of the effectiveness of this technique is convincing the person they are drowning, and the terrorists now know we won't drown them in reality. As a matter of policy we should not allow torture; I am hopeful that Jack Bauers are out there to ignore policy when necessary.

Refused release to hurt Vietnamese & remain loyal to POWs. (Nov 1999)

Not sure what this one means. If it's referring to his time in the Hanoi Hilton, it's indisputably heroic.

Confederate flag on top of capitol was wrong; in front is ok. (May 2007)

South Carolina's decision to make.

How do you feel about these stances?

Why or why not would you vote for McCain?

I will proudly vote for Senator McCain, because he is a man of principle. He is solid on the War on Terror, he is firm in his determination to succeed in transforming Iraq. He has stood strong on battling pork-barrel spending and the growth of government. He has served his country admirably and will not "go along to get along".
 
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He has flipped around a lot on gays. From what I've gathered so far, he didn't support a constitutional amendment then. But later he told Fallwell et al. that he would support it if enough States had started redefining marriage. So it's a State's right as long as they agree with him.

On civil unions... He's vague. He says he supports people getting together with lawyers and setting up who has legal authority, who gets what, joint property etc. But he doesn't seem to actually support civil unions.

However, he changes his answers a lot and it is kinda confusing, but that is the overall picture I get.

I don't like him because he slutted hard for the "agents of intolerance", and now he is pretty much in line with the Republicans on the war and other issues. Kinda betrayed his "maverick" title.

Oh, and if his VP is Huckabee, or someone comparable, then definitely no. He isn't getting younger and he is quite the hawk.

And he recently talked about there being "other wars".

Oh, and though I like him talking about stopping pork barrel spending, it will take a lot more than that to get spending under control. I haven't seen any of his plans for that.

And he took more lobbyist money than anyone but... ;)
 
I would say that McCains anti-torture stance is a little more than just a way to stand out.

That's just how he gets to bring up that he was a POW.

Apparently he doesn't remember the pain of his own facial reconstruction, as he is willing to send more people to die in Iraq.
 
That's just how he gets to bring up that he was a POW.

Apparently he doesn't remember the pain of his own facial reconstruction, as he is willing to send more people to die in Iraq.

His stance on the war has nothing really to do with his stance on torture. If anything service makes him the only candidate that can actually know what he is asking our troops to do. Whatever your personal feelings for the man and what he stands for, to say that his stand against torture is somehow only for show is uncalled for.
 
I will proudly vote for Senator McCain, because he is a man of principle. He is solid on the War on Terror, he is firm in his determination to succeed in transforming Iraq. He has stood strong on battling pork-barrel spending and the growth of government. He has served his country admirably and will not "go along to get along".

I agree with most of of his stances on this list. Any of the ones I disagree with, his eventual opponent and I will also disagree with (and much more). McCain was my second choice from the beginning (I voted for Fred Thompson in the primary's) and was my first choice in 2000.

I too will proudly and gladly vote for him.
 
His stance on the war has nothing really to do with his stance on torture. If anything service makes him the only candidate that can actually know what he is asking our troops to do. Whatever your personal feelings for the man and what he stands for, to say that his stand against torture is somehow only for show is uncalled for.

Well, he is against torture, but he is for killing people.

:boggled:
 
If the GOP ticket ends up being McCain / Huckabee, the platform drawn up at the convention is sure to be a riot.
 
It looks like McCain will be the GOP nod.
Here is just a small pick of issues about McCain.

From this website http://www.ontheissues.org/John_McCain.htm
http://www.ontheissues.org/John_McCain.htm

Kind of skimpy there. They just give you the quick "voted yes or no". They don't seem to go indepth about the specific bills themselves.


Supports repealing Roe v. Wade (May 2007)

Agree.

Things are tough now, but we're better off than in 2000(Jan 2008)

Depends on who he is talking to.

Leave gay marriage to the states. (Jan 2007)

The states regulate marriage now (I don't like that by the way), so I guess.

Teaching creationism should be decided by school districts. (Jun 2007)

Not in science class.

Ok with American presence in Iraq for 100 years. (Jan 2008)

I think he was being figurative there. I agree we need to be there as long as it takes to make a secure, functioning society (or societies)

Supports federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. (May 2007)

agree

Climate change is real and must be addressed. (Dec 2007)

Agree

Preserve and help our National Parks. (Jan 2000)

Agree

Prosecute criminals, not citizens for gun ownership. (Sep 2007)

Agree

Waterboarding is torture; we're not going to torture people. (Nov 2007)

agree

Refused release to hurt Vietnamese & remain loyal to POWs. (Nov 1999)

Gonna need clarification on that one.

Confederate flag on top of capitol was wrong; in front is ok. (May 2007)

Its a sign of frickin treason. Why the hell do rednecks hold so much influence?

How do you feel about these stances?

Why or why not would you vote for McCain?

Over all, I agree with him. Not on everything, but most. I also feel he is the most consistent of all the major candidates.
 
Supports repealing Roe v. Wade (May 2007)

I agree with this. So does Ron Paul

Things are tough now, but we're better off than in 2000(Jan 2008)

He said this is regards to the economy. Do you people believe we are actually better off right now then we were in 2000 in regards to our economy???

Leave gay marriage to the states. (Jan 2007)
I agree with this. So does Ron Paul

Teaching creationism should be decided by school districts. (Jun 2007)
I agree with this. So does Ron Paul.

Ok with American presence in Iraq for 100 years. (Jan 2008)
I couldnt disagree with this more. Its like trying to fit your car into a parking space that clearly isnt big enough.

Supports federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. (May 2007)
This issue i dont care much for so i have no real opinion on it. Either way i would be fine.

Climate change is real and must be addressed. (Dec 2007)
I agree with this.

Preserve and help our National Parks. (Jan 2000)
This is nice i guess id be for it

Prosecute criminals, not citizens for gun ownership. (Sep 2007)
I agree with this. So does Ron Paul

Waterboarding is torture; we're not going to torture people. (Nov 2007)
I agree with this and would believe RP would be against this, but im not sure.

Refused release to hurt Vietnamese & remain loyal to POWs. (Nov 1999)
I lack information on the topic. Can not pass judgement.

Confederate flag on top of capitol was wrong; in front is ok. (May 2007)
**** that Flag. Personal belief but actually doesnt bother me much.

feel the man is untrust worthy and unintelligent. I would not vote for him!
 
Refused release to hurt Vietnamese & remain loyal to POWs. (Nov 1999)


This is in regards to McCain's father being an Admiral in the navy. The Vietnamese were going to release him from captivity because of who his father was. He said he would not be released early. He remained loyal to POWs.
 
I have always had a soft spot for McCain, and would have voted for him in the last election had he been a candidate.

However, I just watched his speech on TV and it was the single scariest speech I've heard this campaign. I was particularly put off by his desire to increase warrantless detention overseas and increase the US' ability to monitor phone and other messages. I didn't like his assertion that he would make the (stupid) tax breaks Bush has put in place permanent. I didn't like that he would NEVER sign a budget with earmarks in it. I didn't like that he would drastically decrease the tax percentage for business, but made no mention of tax breaks for the middle and working classes. I pretty much didn't like anything he said.

There is no way I want this guy in the White House. Despite what he maybe once was, right now it looks like Bush Redux to me. That is not acceptable to me.

I immediately went on-line & made a campaign contribution to a Democratic candidate...
 
It looks like McCain will be the GOP nod.
Here is just a small pick of issues about McCain.

From this website http://www.ontheissues.org/John_McCain.htm

Supports repealing Roe v. Wade (May 2007)

Agree.

Things are tough now, but we're better off than in 2000(Jan 2008)

Mostly Agree.

Leave gay marriage to the states. (Jan 2007)

Agree.

Teaching creationism should be decided by school districts. (Jun 2007)

I disagree with creationism. However It's more of a local issue that should be decided by the district, so I agree.
Ok with American presence in Iraq for 100 years. (Jan 2008)

This was a bit rhetorical, but I agree. Keep in mind we have had troops in S. Korea for 50 years, and for good reason.

Supports federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. (May 2007)

Disagree.

Climate change is real and must be addressed. (Dec 2007)

Mostly agree. Global warming can only be addressed as a *global* issue, which includes Inda and China. But I do support cutting our reliance on foreign oil by supporting alternatives such as nuclear and proven viable renewables and conservation efforts in the spirit of Roosevelt.

Preserve and help our National Parks. (Jan 2000)

Agree.

Prosecute criminals, not citizens for gun ownership. (Sep 2007)

Agree.

Waterboarding is torture; we're not going to torture people. (Nov 2007)

Agree.

Refused release to hurt Vietnamese & remain loyal to POWs. (Nov 1999)

I don't think this is a political position, but for some clarification:

"I spelled out the reasons [to my fellow inmates] why I should not [accept the Vietnamese offer of release from the POW camp]:

Just letting me go is a propaganda victory for them. I can tell they really want me to go. And if they want something that much it’s got to be a bad thing. I can’t give them that satisfaction.

Second, I would be disloyal to the rest of you. I know why they’re doing this-to make every guy here whose father isn’t an admiral think the [Army’s Code of Conduct] is ****. They’ll tell all of you, “Your father’s not an admiral and nobody gives a damn about you.” And I don’t want to go home and see my father, and he wouldn’t want to see me under those conditions. I’ve got to say no.

Eventually, [the Vietnamese asked if I considered their release offer]. “What is your answer?” “No, thank you.” “Why?” “American prisoners cannot accept parole, or amnesty or special favors. We must be released in the order of our capture.. My final answer is no.”
Source: “Faith of My Fathers”, p. 235 Nov 9, 1999

Confederate flag on top of capitol was wrong; in front is ok. (May 2007)

Disagree.

How do you feel about these stances?

Why or why not would you vote for McCain?

I agree with McCain on most of the basics. His stance and subsequent banning the use of torture lends America credibility abroad, while keeping our eyes on the problem of terrorism. I don't think it's show or "a way to stand out", given his life experience, and many military men feel the same way.

http://tinyurl.com/2gbsso
http://tinyurl.com/2gvp7q
 
I was slow to realize that there was this big anti-McCain campaign going on.

And now that I know about it I don't understand it. OK, McCain has a few opinions out of the Conservative Republican Mainstream. But are these mostly minor diversions from the right wing mainstream enough to justify all the rancor?

We are living through what is almost certainly the worst administration of my life. It is the worst by standards that would be agreed to by almost all people. Yes there are a few partisans that have decided to overlook the corruption and incompetence, the massive unfunded spending and the disastrous management of the Iraqi occupation to defend Bush. But now these same partisans have decided that McCain is the devil? Based on what? What are the driving issues for a McCain hater/Bush lover?

One theory I have is that this is all about setting McCain up as the big scape goat for what is likely to be another election with huge Republican losses. The argument will go that the Republicans failed because they didn't put up a "real" conservative for the presidency.
 
It looks like McCain will be the GOP nod.
Here is just a small pick of issues about McCain.

From this website http://www.ontheissues.org/John_McCain.htm
Assuming nothing more complex in the issues than what is presented below:

> Supports repealing Roe v. Wade (May 2007)
That's up to the Supreme Court, not the president. I think it's a bad decision, but I'm still moderately pro-choice (guess you could say I'm moderately pro-life, for that matter). Even if SCOTUS were to overturn it, I'm convinced abortion would remain widely available throughout the country.

> Things are tough now, but we're better off than in 2000(Jan 2008)
Well, I'm better off. I think the country is safer today from terrorists than in 2000, when we were barely aware of them. Question is really too vague to answer intelligently.

> Leave gay marriage to the states. (Jan 2007)
Someone else aptly pointed out the problem with the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution. I don't see how you can have some states recognizing gay marriages and some not. House divided and all that. I'd like to see gay marriages recognized nationwide, but the country won't be ready for that for another 10 or 20 years.

> Teaching creationism should be decided by school districts. (Jun 2007)
This bothers me. Kids aren't even taught how to read, write, add, or subtract, but we argue about whether they should be taught some mythology about how life arose. Jeezum crow.

> Ok with American presence in Iraq for 100 years. (Jan 2008)
We've been in South Korea for 57 years. Of course, there hasn't been any significant shooting there since 1954.

> Supports federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. (May 2007)
That's a non-issue now, since scientists have figured out how to make stem cells without embryos.

> Climate change is real and must be addressed. (Dec 2007)
Mildly agree with the first part, but since we don't know how much of it is our doing and how much of it is simply cyclical in nature, disagree with the rest.

> Preserve and help our National Parks. (Jan 2000)
Yeah, okay, and honor your mom and pop, too. Everyone loves national parks.

> Prosecute criminals, not citizens for gun ownership. (Sep 2007)
Agree.

> Waterboarding is torture; we're not going to torture people. (Nov 2007)
Disagree. A few minutes of pain and suffering for one man planning to blow up a building is a fair price to pay to save the lives of the people in that building.

> Refused release to hurt Vietnamese & remain loyal to POWs. (Nov 1999)
That's not an issue, but it speaks volumes about his character; I consider that very important.

> Confederate flag on top of capitol was wrong; in front is ok. (May 2007)
Not a federal issue at all, irrelevant.

Why or why not would you vote for McCain?
Now that Romney is gone, I'll vote for McCain, because national security trumps every other issue for me. I've actually gone to the trouble of visiting Clinton's and Obama's web sites to see where they stand on it, and they basically talk about fighting a defensive war against Islamist terrorism. You can't win a war if you don't hit back, and neither Clinton nor Obama says how they would hit back, or that they would hit back at all. Romney had the clearest vision of how to win, which involved getting other countries to fight with us; he recognized that we can't do it alone. McCain is vaguer on that, but he's still better than Clinton and Obama. Obama says pointedly about the war in Iraq that he will "end the war." Note he doesn't say he'll win it; we'll just leave.

I have problems with McCain, the biggest being the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform, which was going to take the corrupting influence of money out of presidential politics. We saw how that worked. What McCain-Feingold does is limit political speech, and that's an attack on the first amendment, and I hate that.

So I won't be completely happy about it, but I'll vote for McCain, and hope that that strength of character he displayed at the Hanoi Hilton comes out as president. But I really believe that this country is going to elect Obama - the adoring press coverage makes it inevitable, to my mind.
 
I'm too lazy to go through the list at the moment, so I'll just say that I'm a pretty down the line liberal (at least on those issues) and in the end oppose him although I think he might be a lesser evil as far as Republicans go.

Well, he is against torture, but he is for killing people.

:boggled:

A big argument against torture is that it doesn't actually work. You're just causing great suffering to a person and disgracing yourself while getting little but unreliable information in exchange. To contrast, killing people often gets quite tangible results, although I don't think it gets terribly meaningful results in Iraq (or in other areas, although I'm not an absolute pacifist).
 

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