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Why dont we tax churches?

Tmy

Philosopher
Tmy
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Messages
6,487
Do they get out of all taxes?? Like sales and property taxes?

What is the reasoning behind that. When a church burns does the fire department not come?? If they are getting these services why should they avoid the taxes.
 
Seperation of church and state.

The state could simply over tax those religions it doesn't like, making impossible to establish a church. (Just like it tries to tax out of existence alcohol, tobbaco, and firearms).
 
The Church of Satan voluntarily pays taxes, although it would be perfectly legitimate for it to refuse. Odd that they're more civic-minded than the other religions.
 
I could see that if there was a "church tax". But there is no such thing. Sales tax, or property taxes are universial. THey arent targetd at any specific church. Church organizations still have to follow other laws, like buildings codes n stuff.
 
I thought about startign a religion so I don't have to pay taxes. I don't think it's a matter of seperation of church and state. The fact they aren't taxed means they get special treatment.
 
I thought about startign a religion so I don't have to pay taxes.
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Not exactly a new idea. Scientology does the same to shelter their prophets.

CBL
 
Tmy said:
Do they get out of all taxes?? Like sales and property taxes?

What is the reasoning behind that. When a church burns does the fire department not come?? If they are getting these services why should they avoid the taxes.
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Another nice perk that churches have is that they can own land and buildings without having to pay Property Taxes.

Very few other organizations get such a nice deal.
 
RichardG,

Seperation of church and state.

The state could simply over tax those religions it doesn't like, making impossible to establish a church. (Just like it tries to tax out of existence alcohol, tobbaco, and firearms).
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That argument doesn't hold water, for a number of reasons.

1) This would require that the government not only pass laws that only apply to churches, but also which only apply to the churches they don't like. And that would be a clear case of religious discrimination.

2) In order to make churches tax exempt, the government has to decide which groups do, and do not, qualify as churches. This means that if they want to "tax them out of existence", all they have to do is choose not to grant them the legal status of being a church.

3) Deciding which groups do and do not qualify as official religion is an establishment of religion, which the 1st Amendment forbids. Right now there are hundreds of government endorsed, established religions in the US. There are not supposed to be any.

Taxing churches is not going to put them out of business. Besides, the constitution guarantees the freedom to practice your religion, not the right for your religion to run an organization that can't financially support itself.

The simple fact is that churches are not taxed in the US because religions comprise some of the most politically powerful special interest groups in the country, and they don't want to be taxed.

The bottom line is that the IRS, like any other government agency, does not have any powers which are not granted to it by force of law. And since the 1st Amendment clearly states that Congress can't pass a law respecting the establishment of religion, it necessarily follows that Congress cannot pass any law which grants to the IRS the power to establish religions. But that is exactly what the IRS does.

Scientology is a perfect example of this. Back in the 80s, the IRS decided that they did not qualify for religious exemption. A few years ago, they changed their mind, and decided that they did. Clearly the IRS has the power to decide which religions are taxed, and which are not. This completely blows apart the argument that the tax exemption is needed to prevent the government from using taxation as tool for religious discrimination. On the contrary, the tax exemption provides the government with exactly that tool.


Dr. Stupid
 
CBL4 said:
Not exactly a new idea. Scientology does the same to shelter their prophets.

CBL
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Yeah, but I wouldn't start some harmful crap like that.
 
merphie said:
Yeah, but I wouldn't start some harmful crap like that.
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I doubt Mr. Hubbard wanted it to be harmful when he started it. It looks like it all kind of got away from him and took on a life of its own.
 
gnome said:
I doubt Mr. Hubbard wanted it to be harmful when he started it. It looks like it all kind of got away from him and took on a life of its own.
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You maybe right. I could start "the First Church of the Athiest"!
 
The real question is why do we tax anybody. The answers are pretty ugly:


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Teddy20031016.JPG
 
gnome said:
I doubt Mr. Hubbard wanted it to be harmful when he started it. It looks like it all kind of got away from him and took on a life of its own.
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I sort of doubt that. When one tells all one's followers to refer to oneself as "the Commodore," one is pretty well on one's way to a power trip.

How could one not think that the end result will be trouble when one says, "Every now and then throughout history, someone comes along who really understand how the world works; I'm talking about people like Jesus and me."
 
TragicMonkey said:
The Church of Satan voluntarily pays taxes, although it would be perfectly legitimate for it to refuse. Odd that they're more civic-minded than the other religions.
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Interesting... I searched for some information about this, but could find anything. Have a link? :)
 
Ladewig said:
I sort of doubt that. When one tells all one's followers to refer to oneself as "the Commodore," one is pretty well on one's way to a power trip.

How could one not think that the end result will be trouble when one says, "Every now and then throughout history, someone comes along who really understand how the world works; I'm talking about people like Jesus and me."
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I think that was later, as the power went to his head. I could be wrong, but it seems like a case of power corrupting, to me.
 
Questioninggeller said:
Interesting... I searched for some information about this, but could find anything. Have a link? :)
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http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html

(edited to add: you have to click the link to Theory-Practice.)

Click on the "Church of Satan Information Pack" link. It's a PDF with a lot of interesting ideas.

It's on page 8:
The second point is the enforcement of strict taxation of all churches. This would remove the government sanction of religion and force these parasites to live off of their own members alone, and if they can't, then they will perish as they should. The Church of Satan has never pursued tax-exempt statues and challenges all the rest of the world's churches to stand on their own feet. Let us expose the vampiric nature of the organized religions and see if they can withstand the light of day.
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gnome said:
I doubt Mr. Hubbard wanted it to be harmful when he started it. It looks like it all kind of got away from him and took on a life of its own.
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I beg to differ (well I agree it got away from him) but he knew what it was he started, he knew it wasn't substantiated by any evidence and he was a sick and cruel person - his “religion” mirrors that.

See:

http://www.religio.de/books/bfm/bfmconte.html

http://www.nots.org/
 
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