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Why don't christians know more?

DRBUZZ0

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There is something that never fails to amaze me. It's how little christians often know about their own religion. Not necessarly controversial stuff, but things that are known facts and which the church admits to.

You would think that as an atheist, I'd be less knowledgable about the bible and christian history. And many Christians attack me as "Well, how can you know? You're an Atheist!" or even "You don't believe because you're uneducated about the faith"


Examples:

I told someone Christ was not born on December 25th. That the day was just chosen. They said "Of course he was." I explained that the Church would admit that there is no known date and that the date was chosen for other reasons. I challanged them to find a date in the bible. FInally they said "it's just an artical of faith."

Faith??? Damnit! No it's not. It's not an actual belief. It's just the day chosen to....ug forget ti.


Other examples:

The "Rapture" is not in the bible and was first mentioned in the middle ages... based on loose biblical interpertation.

The versions of hell cited by christians are often taken from Dante's Inferno...not the bible.

"Pergatory" or "Limbo" the place you go when you die and have not been baptised or need to be obsolved from sin... well...it is not in the bible and the Catholic Church (which invented it) now has taken it back...

The bible was not contiguously written. It was put togeather from books floating around. The others (gospal of thomas, judas ect) were banished. Some, however have turned up again.

Jesus is said in the bible to have had brothers and sisters. This doesn't fit well with the whole virgin thing...so the chruch rebranded them as step-brothers. It doesn't say that anywhere though.


There are many many more

Don't they read their DAMN Bible???
 
DRBUZZ0 said:
"Pergatory" or "Limbo" the place you go when you die and have not been baptised or need to be obsolved from sin... well...it is not in the bible and the Catholic Church (which invented it) now has taken it back...
Click to expand...

I have heard from Catholics that Limbo was "taken back", but if Purgatory was, you'd better inform the priest that performed my grandfather's funerary mass, he spent most of his sermon letting us know that we have to pray for my grandfather so he can leave purgatory. Purgartory and Limbo were never the same place, as far as I know Limbo was just for dead unbaptized infants.
 
DRBUZZ0 said:
There are many many more

Don't they read their DAMN Bible???
Click to expand...

I have to say most of the christians I know don't bother to read the book. They just trust the bloke in a funny hat and a dress to interpret it for them.
It seems a very odd way to reach a conclusion on moral issues to me. But what would I know? I'm not a Christian.
 
Well, I've found that it really isn't Christian ignorance per sea. For example, I've found that the same people that can't answer what seem to be real basic questions about their own religion, also can't answer questions about politics.

You probably heard about the recent survey that showed where more people could name the Three Stooges than the three branches of the United States government, etc. etc.

We live in an age of extreme illiteracy. There's not much else to say.
 
stamenflicker said:
Well, I've found that it really isn't Christian ignorance per sea. For example, I've found that the same people that can't answer what seem to be real basic questions about their own religion, also can't answer questions about politics.

You probably heard about the recent survey that showed where more people could name the Three Stooges than the three branches of the United States government, etc. etc.

We live in an age of extreme illiteracy. There's not much else to say.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

But there is still a point to this thread, as SOME Christians have no clue what they actually believe.

Like an animal that is taught to only obey without qualm, some Christians 'blindly' follow their faith/belief, never questioning ANYTHING about it.
 
rachaella said:
I have heard from Catholics that Limbo was "taken back", but if Purgatory was, you'd better inform the priest that performed my grandfather's funerary mass, he spent most of his sermon letting us know that we have to pray for my grandfather so he can leave purgatory. Purgartory and Limbo were never the same place, as far as I know Limbo was just for dead unbaptized infants.
Click to expand...


No... Purgatory, as far as I am aware has been "taken back." I remember being in Sunday school and the issue coming up. It has been said that it violates the idea that you would be forgiven for sins. I know the church is (at the least) less big on it than they used to be.

In any case... it definately is not in the bible and is only sort-of mentioned if you use a very very fuzzy interpertation.

Apprently, the new thing (from what I can find online) is that Purgatory is no longer a punishment place... No...now it's purification. Also..it's more fuzzy than it used to be and more abstract...so you can make the case for it being more of an idea....

From what I understand, some might still be big on it, if they haven't gotten the memo from the Vatican. Otherwise...i think they just don't talk about it much...

Yea...can't seem to get a consistant answer on that one
 
DRBUZZ0 said:
No... Purgatory, as far as I am aware has been "taken back." I remember being in Sunday school and the issue coming up. It has been said that it violates the idea that you would be forgiven for sins. I know the church is (at the least) less big on it than they used to be.

In any case... it definately is not in the bible and is only sort-of mentioned if you use a very very fuzzy interpertation.

Apprently, the new thing (from what I can find online) is that Purgatory is no longer a punishment place... No...now it's purification. Also..it's more fuzzy than it used to be and more abstract...so you can make the case for it being more of an idea....

From what I understand, some might still be big on it, if they haven't gotten the memo from the Vatican. Otherwise...i think they just don't talk about it much...

Yea...can't seem to get a consistant answer on that one
Click to expand...

Indeed. The whole idea was a big screwup for the Catholic Church, just like the 'tickets to heaven.'
 
DRBUZZ0 said:
I told someone Christ was not born on December 25th. That the day was just chosen. They said "Of course he was." I explained that the Church would admit that there is no known date and that the date was chosen for other reasons. I challanged them to find a date in the bible. FInally they said "it's just an artical of faith."
Click to expand...
December 25th was the supposed birth date of Mithras, and this was "borrowed and adapted" into Christianity. There are several other striking similarities between Jesus and other preceeding mythical figures as well, not just Mithras but also Dionysus, Horus, and more. (Things such as baptism, being son of god, water into wine, etc. Worth looking up if you're interested.)

When you throw these coincidences back at xians they typically don't know anything about them (and then try to rationalise it away).

Christianity is never bothered by facts getting in the way of a good story.
 
Azure said:
Indeed. The whole idea was a big screwup for the Catholic Church, just like the 'tickets to heaven.'
Click to expand...
The CC invented limbo because people felt viscerally that it was unfair to condemn unbaptised babies to Hell for all eternity through no fault of their own, but the CC couldn't admit that not only Xians (and Catholics at that) went to Heaven, so limbo was written into the fantasy script as a super consolation prize. Now, everyone gets into Heaven, but non-Xians have to spent longer in Purgatory, which is a kind of antechamber or waiting room for Heaven. The naughtier you've been (like not believing--very naughty), the longer you spend in the waiting room. I believe I saw Beetlejuice there.
 
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When I was a believer I went to a baptist church for many years. I had a lot of trust in our church because it was not closely affiliated to any central organisation. The pastors were chosen by consesus with the deacons, elders and congregation. When the pastor was on hols or ill, any congregation member could be invited to preach in his place. the congregation was encouraged to have bibles to hande to cross check anything said by a preacher. If and when the got it wrong there were people well versed enough to stand up and say "err, I think you might be wrong on that one" right in the middle of the sermon. There were lots of individual groups of bible study and tricky issues like JC's brothers weren't shied from. (Our church saw no problem at all with JC's brothers. JC was eldest and from virgin birth, the others came after via more conventional fertilisatiojn processes!)

I ditched the church when I saw how we taught that ALL OTHER RELIGIONS are wrong. It wasn't logical that our God was the right one and theirs weren't.
And then, thank the pixies, I discovered skepticism.
 
Kimpatsu said:
The CC invented limbo because people felt viscerally that it was unfair to condemn unbaptised babies to Hell for all eternity through no fault of their own, but the CC couldn't admit that not only Xians (and Catholics at that) went to Heaven, so limbo was written into the fantasy script as a super consolation prize. Now, everyone gets into Heaven, but non-Xians have to spent longer in Purgatory, which is a kind of antechamber or waiting room for Heaven. The naughtier you've been (like not believing--very naughty), the longer you spend in the waiting room. I believe I saw Beetlejuice there.
Click to expand...

If you die without having confessed a mortal sin, don't you still go to Hell? Also, I believe I am destined to Hell, having denied the Holy Spirit or whatever the hell that "unforgiveable sin" is.
 
Beerina said:
If you die without having confessed a mortal sin, don't you still go to Hell? Also, I believe I am destined to Hell, having denied the Holy Spirit or whatever the hell that "unforgiveable sin" is.
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Not in Catholicism. They don't burn anyone nowadays. You just go to the Waiting Room instead. Which can seem like Hell...
 
Let's not forget that Christianity is more than just a belief system. In many parts of the world it offers a socials structure which provides Christians with a feeling of solidarity and places to meet likeminded people, something atheism doesn't provide. I can see how people would be drawn to that aspect of Christianity without having much interest (or the mental capacity) to ponder the details of their faith.
 
SwissSkeptic said:
Let's not forget that Christianity is more than just a belief system. In many parts of the world it offers a socials structure which provides Christians with a feeling of solidarity and places to meet likeminded people, something atheism doesn't provide. I can see how people would be drawn to that aspect of Christianity without having much interest (or the mental capacity) to ponder the details of their faith.
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This may turn into a massive derail, but...
Julia Sweeney said much the same thing at TAM4. Immigrants to the USA from Catholic countries such as Poland and Italy often turned to the Catholic Church as their first line of support in this new and strange land. The Church would organise appartments from them, help them find work, and get them set up in their new lives. When people who haven't been to church once in their life say "I'm Catholic" or "I'm Lutheran", what they're really saying is, "I acknowledge my inheritance of the culture of community support centred on the church". Atheism can't compete with that because it's not a creed. I guess we need to start our own outreach programme or something...
 
Kimpatsu said:
The CC invented limbo because people felt viscerally that it was unfair to condemn unbaptised babies to Hell for all eternity through no fault of their own, but the CC couldn't admit that not only Xians (and Catholics at that) went to Heaven, so limbo was written into the fantasy script as a super consolation prize. Now, everyone gets into Heaven, but non-Xians have to spent longer in Purgatory, which is a kind of antechamber or waiting room for Heaven. The naughtier you've been (like not believing--very naughty), the longer you spend in the waiting room. I believe I saw Beetlejuice there.
Click to expand...

So you can commit any sin known to man, and still not go to hell?

I guess some people will wait in the waiting room forever... ;)
 
Kimpatsu said:
This may turn into a massive derail, but...
Julia Sweeney said much the same thing at TAM4. Immigrants to the USA from Catholic countries such as Poland and Italy often turned to the Catholic Church as their first line of support in this new and strange land. The Church would organise appartments from them, help them find work, and get them set up in their new lives. When people who haven't been to church once in their life say "I'm Catholic" or "I'm Lutheran", what they're really saying is, "I acknowledge my inheritance of the culture of community support centred on the church". Atheism can't compete with that because it's not a creed. I guess we need to start our own outreach programme or something...
Click to expand...

This is a legitimate point, there is more to a church than religion, there is also comunity.
 
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