Who’s telling the truth: Clint Hill or the Zapruder film?

[Galileo]

Who’s telling the truth: Clint Hill or the Zapruder film?

Agent’s reports contradict JFK film, autopsy X-rays and other crucial photographs

Jim Fetzer

“In the midst of the mayhem the agents were calm, but ready to react in a millisecond if anything got out of hand.”
—Jerry Blaine, THE KENNEDY DETAIL

According to Jerry Blaine, the author of THE KENNEDY DETAIL (2010), his purpose in writing this book was “to set history straight, to leave a book for [his] grandchildren that they could read and know the truth beyond any measure of doubt.” What Blaine has actually done, however, moves us further toward the truth by revealing that the words of Clint Hill, the only agent to respond during the assassination, contradict his actions as shown in the Zapruder film, in which his efforts to protect Jackie Kennedy are among its most indelible features. They also impeach autopsy X-rays and other photographs. We therefore have in Clint Hill’s own words stunning new proof that the extant film has been faked. The book—and presentations to promote it—thus contributes to “setting history straight”, but not in the sense its author intended.

MORE:

http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2011/01/whos-telling-truth-clint-hill-or.html

Dr. Fetz seems to have hit the nail on the head again, he's an expert, what do you guys think?

 

[uke2se]

A month or so ago myself and a few friends were traveling along snowy roads in northern Finland. It was dark and cold out, and snow was blasting the windshield. Seemingly out of nowhere, a reindeer appears from the side of the road and careens straight across the road and - BAM! - we hit it. The reindeer had struck the side of our car - thanks to the quick reactions of our driver who managed to steer the car, avoiding a head-on crash. Surveying the damage the car was dented and bloody, and the reindeer had a broken neck and had to be put down.

Going through the event in the car later, the driver thanked me for warning him of the reindeer. He said that if I hadn't yelled out "lookout, reindeer!" he wouldn't have noticed it and we would have hit it head-on, resulting in a much worse accident (for us, of course, as the reindeer had a bad day regardless). The thing is, that's not how I remember it. My memory of the event was of the breaks suddenly hitting and seeing a moving shadow in front of the car, after which there was a bang and we stopped. I have no recollection of seeing the reindeer before hand, nor of shouting out a warning. In fact, I have no recollection of a warning being shouted out at all.

You see, that's what can happen in a sudden crisis situation. Your memory gets foggy and you act on instinct.

I hope this helps.

 

[Beanbag]

Trust the film. It has no tongue, therefore it cannot lie.

Beanbag

 

[Halcyon Dayz]

Dr. Fetz seems to have hit the nail on the head again, he's an expert, what do you guys think?[/I]

'Dr. Fetz' believes that his PhD (in actual philosophy) makes him an Expert On Everything™.
He'll even argue engineering with real life engineers.
He's excellent evidence that an academic education doesn't protect one from the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

Someone who believes that the recollection of a traumatic event years after the fact somehow trumps physical evidence needs to get back in touch with reality.

 

[JCM]

Trust the film. It has no tongue, therefore it cannot lie.

Yup. But watch out for copies of a copy of a copy or you might think the driver shot him.

 

[Cocana The Second]

Yup. But watch out for copies of a copy of a copy or you might think the driver shot him.

On a related note, does anyone have any details of the provenance of the "cleaned" movie showing the driver doing the shooting?

 

[Revdude]

Back in the day, I did a lot of research on the Kennedy Assassination.
One piece of evidence that I found which never received a lot of attention was the fact that the presidential motorcade took the wrong road through Dealey Plaza.

Here is an overview photo image of the pertinent facts of the murder.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...i=121d8oraa&sigb=1438uf72q&.crumb=9QWcqaF1ory

In researching Dallas papers of the days leading up to Kennedy's visit, the path of the motorcade is shown to have proceeded straight down Main St, rather than turning on Elm, which led him right past the killing field.

Somebody who had the authority changed the motorcade route. This person had to have been higher ranking than the Secret Service, since they would have refused a lesser order.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Or the paper published the wrong route.

As for the driver doing the shooting! lol.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Or the paper published the wrong route.

Or the Secret Service changed the route.

Dave

 

[angrysoba]

Back in the day, I did a lot of research on the Kennedy Assassination.
One piece of evidence that I found which never received a lot of attention was the fact that the presidential motorcade took the wrong road through Dealey Plaza.

Here is an overview photo image of the pertinent facts of the murder.In researching Dallas papers of the days leading up to Kennedy's visit, the path of the motorcade is shown to have proceeded straight down Main St, rather than turning on Elm, which led him right past the killing field.

Somebody who had the authority changed the motorcade route. This person had to have been higher ranking than the Secret Service, since they would have refused a lesser order.

Makes no difference. The original route was still in range of the Book Depository.

 

[A'isha]

In researching Dallas papers of the days leading up to Kennedy's visit, the path of the motorcade is shown to have proceeded straight down Main St, rather than turning on Elm, which led him right past the killing field.

No, it wasn't changed. Written descriptions of the motorcade route published in the Dallas newspapers days before the Kennedy visit all mention, quite specifically, that it included a turn down Elm.

 

[dudalb]

'Dr. Fetz' believes that his PhD (in actual philosophy) makes him an Expert On Everything™.
He'll even argue engineering with real life engineers.
He's excellent evidence that an academic education doesn't protect one from the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

Someone who believes that the recollection of a traumatic event years after the fact somehow trumps physical evidence needs to get back in touch with reality.

Outside his area of expertise, an PHD can be as ignorant as anybody else.


Fetzer probably thinks Stone's JFK is a documentary.

 

[Biscuit]

No, it wasn't changed. Written descriptions of the motorcade route published in the Dallas newspapers days before the Kennedy visit all mention, quite specifically, that it included a turn down Elm.

Otherwise why would there have been people lined up, facing the wrong direction, on elm?

 

[Spindrift]

He's excellent evidence that an academic education doesn't protect one from the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

I had never heard of the Dunning-Kruger Effect before. Very interesting, but I was a little disappointed.

I thought you were referring to Debbie Dunning

and Diane Kruger

 

[A'isha]

Otherwise why would there have been people lined up, facing the wrong direction, on elm?

Exactly.

Either the route was changed, but the change released to the public in time so that the crowds wanting to see the presidential motorcade could be in the right place at the right time (and therefore Oswald setting up for a shot down Elm isn't surprising in the least), or the route wasn't changed at all.

The evidence all points towards the latter explanation being true. But in either case, the route the motorcade took was not a surprise, not a mystery, not something that could only be known by "the conspirators", and therefore not suspicious at all.

 

[dudalb]

I wonder how long until we get the crapola about how it was impossible for Oswald to get off all those shots in time with a bold action rifle:My own favorite bit of Kennedy CTer nonsense.

 

[Beanbag]

He only had to cycle the action TWICE, not three times as most people mistakenly think. He had the first round already chambered. Three shots, two cycles of the action.

Beanbag

 

[Revdude]

No, it wasn't changed. Written descriptions of the motorcade route published in the Dallas newspapers days before the Kennedy visit all mention, quite specifically, that it included a turn down Elm.

I don't know what papers you were looking at but the Dallas paper of which I had a copy clearly stated the motorcade route was to be straight down Main St. This was done specifically to avoid hairpin turns that would have caused the motorcade to slow down, thus endangering the President.

Here is an article worth reading on the subject.
http://www.jfk-assassination.de/media/drawings/route.php

If this is the case, Oswald could not have had any prior knowledge of the change and there is no way he could haveplanned the assassination in advance

 

[A'isha]

I don't know what papers you were looking at but the Dallas paper of which I had a copy clearly stated the motorcade route was to be straight down Main St. This was done specifically to avoid hairpin turns that would have caused the motorcade to slow down, thus endangering the President.

You mean this?

This was the map printed in the Dallas Morning News, the day of Kennedy's visit and assassination. And, indeed, it doesn't appear to show the turn onto Elm. Why not?

Well, for one thing, the map itself was tiny, compared to the front page it appeared on. Too small to show the slight diversion onto Elm.

How do we know there was a diversion onto Elm? Because the evening before, the 21st, the Dallas evening paper, the Times-Herald, also published a map of the presidential motorcade route.

Take a close look at that (again, earlier) map.

See? A turn onto Elm, from Houston. Just like the actual motorcade took. And right by the Book Depository.

And that turn onto Elm had been not only planned, but announced to the public, as early as two days before that.

Dallas Morning News, 11-19-63. "Harwood to Main, Main to Houston, Houston to Elm, Elm under the Triple Underpass to Stemmons Freeway, and on to the Trade Mart."

Dallas Times Herald, 11-19-63. "The motorcade will then pass through downtown on Harwood and then west on Main, turning back to Elm at Houston and then out Stemmons Freeway to the Trade Mart."

Here is an article worth reading on the subject.
http://www.jfk-assassination.de/media/drawings/route.php

No, it's not worth reading. Note how they don't reproduce the newspapers, maps or written descriptions. That's because if they do, their case for a change in the motorcade route is sunk.

If this is the case, Oswald could not have had any prior knowledge of the change and there is no way he could haveplanned the assassination in advance

Except, as shown above, it's not the case at all. Oswald knew about the route the motorcade would take, because it had been described in the daily city newspapers for half a week.

And, as noted above, if Oswald didn't know the route of the motorcade, and that it would go down Elm, how did everyone else lining Elm street know? How did Abraham Zapruder, for instance, manage to get into position in time to film the motorcade as it approached him down Elm?

 

[Pacal]

You mean this?

[qimg]http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr157/antpogo/jfk/dmnmap2.gif[/qimg]
This was the map printed in the Dallas Morning News, the day of Kennedy's visit and assassination. And, indeed, it doesn't appear to show the turn onto Elm. Why not?

Well, for one thing, the map itself was tiny, compared to the front page it appeared on. Too small to show the slight diversion onto Elm.

[qimg]http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr157/antpogo/jfk/dmntot.gif[/qimg]

How do we know there was a diversion onto Elm? Because the evening before, the 21st, the Dallas evening paper, the Times-Herald, also published a map of the presidential motorcade route.

[qimg]http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr157/antpogo/jfk/dth.jpg[/qimg]

Take a close look at that (again, earlier) map.

[qimg]http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr157/antpogo/jfk/dthdetl.jpg[/qimg]

See? A turn onto Elm, from Houston. Just like the actual motorcade took. And right by the Book Depository.

And that turn onto Elm had been not only planned, but announced to the public, as early as two days before that.

[qimg]http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr157/antpogo/jfk/dmntue.gif[/qimg]

Dallas Morning News, 11-19-63. "Harwood to Main, Main to Houston, Houston to Elm, Elm under the Triple Underpass to Stemmons Freeway, and on to the Trade Mart."

[qimg]http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr157/antpogo/jfk/dthtue.gif[/qimg]

Dallas Times Herald, 11-19-63. "The motorcade will then pass through downtown on Harwood and then west on Main, turning back to Elm at Houston and then out Stemmons Freeway to the Trade Mart."



No, it's not worth reading. Note how they don't reproduce the newspapers, maps or written descriptions. That's because if they do, their case for a change in the motorcade route is sunk.



Except, as shown above, it's not the case at all. Oswald knew about the route the motorcade would take, because it had been described in the daily city newspapers for half a week.

And, as noted above, if Oswald didn't know the route of the motorcade, and that it would go down Elm, how did everyone else lining Elm street know? How did Abraham Zapruder, for instance, manage to get into position in time to film the motorcade as it approached him down Elm?

Excellent! Isn't amazing how a little bit of woo vanishes with a little bit of research.