Who's Doing the Fighting in Iraq?

[Mr Manifesto]

Sorry to start a new thread on this, but the original one seems to have vanished. There is a reference to the thread in question here, original thread was http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44564.

...In which Jocko asserted, without evidence, that the 'majority of insurgents' in Iraq 'are generally not Iraqis'.

He was asked to back this up. He didn't, because he couldn't (Bush and Allawi hadn't given their piece of propaganda yet, so he couldn't even refer to this). Mycroft bravely attempted to back him up by posting a blog article which said that al-Zarqawi received support from Iran. Probably the most miserable piece of evidence since the blood stain in Lindy Chamberlain's car.

It's important to back up your assertions with evidence, because it might turn out that you are full of crap.

US military officials said Iraqi officials tend to exaggerate the number of foreign fighters to obscure the fact that large numbers of their countrymen have taken up arms against the US.

"They say these guys are flowing across and fomenting all this violence. We don't think so," said a senior military official in Baghdad. "What's the main threat? It's internal."

In a television interview on Sunday, General John Abizaid, of the US Central Command, estimated that the number of foreign fighters in Iraq was below 1000.

US officials admit that Iraq's porous border allows arms and money to be smuggled in with relative ease.

As they describe it, however, the traffic from Syria comprises largely Iraqi Baathists who escaped after the US invasion and couriers bringing in money from former members of Saddam's government.

Still, Jocko is an advertising worker, whose stock in trade is bullsh!t, and Mycroft is... well... Mycroft. The lesson to be learned here is that if you're asked to back your assertions, you should at least try to insted of simply hoping that the questions will go away.

 

[Mr Manifesto]

Of course, in light of General Abizaid's comments, that simply makes this quote look all the sillier:

"If we stop fighting the terrorists in Iraq, they would be free to plot and plan attacks elsewhere, in America and other free nations."
-- George W. Bush

 

[TragicMonkey]

"If we stop fighting the terrorists in Iraq, they would be free to plot and plan attacks elsewhere, in America and other free nations."
-- George W. Bush

It's not silly at all. Just look at the complete absence of terrorism since the war started. That proves he's right, right?

Whoops. Now we see why politicians should avoid falsifiable premises.

 

[Bikewer]

They had a rather hard-nosed CIA analyst on Talk of the Nation within the last couple of weeks, who said that the Al Qaeda presence in Iraq was perhaps 2-3 percent of the "insurgency", and that they were there primarily recruiting.

"Nice shot with that RPG there, Abdul...Wanna play with the big boys?"

 

[Mycroft]

Still, Jocko is an advertising worker, whose stock in trade is bullsh!t, and Mycroft is... well... Mycroft. The lesson to be learned here is that if you're asked to back your assertions, you should at least try to insted of simply hoping that the questions will go away.

Yes, I am.

Al-Zarqawi, I seem to hear his name a lot in connection to Iraq. He's an Iraqi? No? Jordanian?

How about radical clerics in Kuwait recruiting teens to fight in Iraq?

One can certainly argue about the numbers, but one can't deny the foreign influence as well.

 

[Mr Manifesto]

Re: Re: Who's Doing the Fighting in Iraq?

Yes, I am.

Al-Zarqawi, I seem to hear his name a lot in connection to Iraq. He's an Iraqi? No? Jordanian?

How about radical clerics in Kuwait recruiting teens to fight in Iraq?

One can certainly argue about the numbers, but one can't deny the foreign influence as well.

Read the OP again, Mycroft.

 

[demon]

How come everyone is so sure that this al- Zarqawi bloke is involved up to his neck in all this?
Has some proof been revealed that I have missed?

We've been told by the authorities, not shown, that it is al- Zarqawi, and given their track record, why should I believe them.
Of course, I'm not saying I know for sure it isn't him, but neither do I know that it is.
When i read the report into the abduction of the Italian girls I get even more confused. Men in suits? Aid workers?
The quality of the media we have to rely on to shed any light on all of this leaves a lot tobe desired.

We have a right to ask why certain people (most journalists and pundits for instance), are so convinced that al-Zarqawi is behind these kidnappings and beheadings. Why aren`t they curious about some of the anomalies in the al-Zarqawi tale?
Some journalists in England have castigated the internet ghouls for posting the "beheading" videos but they don't mention that several of the "'Islamic" sites on which they originally appear were registered in the UK or US. Is that not interesting?

Similarly, the US has bombed Fallujah pretty much every day for months targeting the mis-named "safe-houses" where al-Zarqawi and his merry men allegedly meet. So what's the US now saying, that he's not in Fallujah after all, that's he's got a budding film career in Baghdad appearing in snuff movies? That he's free to move at will between Fallujah and Baghadad? If so, what does it say about the US's much vaunted intelligence? And who the hell are they bombing nightly in Fallujah?

There are a lot of covert actors in Iraq - the CIA says it's their largest operation since Vietnam; we know Mossad is there. Many of the US-backed exiles arrived with their own militias - the blogger Riverbend has some interesting things to say on these shadowy groups. Aren't these issues and questions that journalists should be aware of and interested in?

 

[geni]

Some journalists in England have castigated the internet ghouls for posting the "beheading" videos but they don't mention that several of the "'Islamic" sites on which they originally appear were registered in the UK or US. Is that not interesting?

Not really. If you want server space the USand to a lesser degree the uk is the logical place to go.

 

[Jim Lennox]

I suspect they keep going on about Al Zarqawi because they reckon there's a better chance of catching this new bad guy in time for the elections. What was that other bloke's name again? Osama something, no, I've forgotten. But at least I live in a democracy where I can have such thoughts.