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Who was a worse president? George W Bush or Donald J Trump?

Who was worse: George W Bush or Donald J Trump?


  • Total voters
    100

angrysoba

Philosophile
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Do you remember how we all thought about George W Bush? Dig out some of the things you wrote at the time. It may have been similar to this from Jeremy Osbourne (NSFW):



As bad as people think Donald J Trump is, almost everyone now saying we are in "unprecedented times" forget that they were saying the same goddamn thing about George W Bush.

Remember how he stole the elections, about how he was going to war all over the world (he actually DID begin wars in Iraq and Afghanistan! Remember that, guys?!) and it was argued that he would not step down at the end of his second term and would become a dictator?

In fact, people thought it was even worse than that! Whereas Trump is transparently incompetent and cannot keep anyone on his staff for long, Bush actually did have a competent group of people - Dick Cheney was the brains, the neo-conservatives such as Wolfowitz etc... were the ideological underpinning. He set up the Guantanamo Bay prison camps!

Remember when Kanye West, instead of sucking up to the president in the White House was saying that the president didn't care about black people? Remember Hurricane Katrina and the Astrodome? What about how Neil Young today is complaining that Trump used his music at a rally, when in Bush's term he wrote a whole album denouncing Bush! Radiohead wrote an album called Hail to the Thief about Bush! There were books flying off the shelves about the dark days of the Bush regime and how there was a shift towards fascism. Naomi Wolfe wrote a particularly paranoid pamphlet etc...

I think Trump will lose. He will whine and complain and then he will leave. Or he might not lose (he has a 25% chance of winning according to 538) in which case, there will be some riots, and we will continue to have this tragicomedy for another 4 years.

But anyway, I want to know who you think is worse? Please answer the poll and leave vehement comments on this topic.
 
Dammit! Messed up the poll.

The second: "They were both as awful as each other in different ways" should be "They were both as awful as each other in different ways the same way".
 
Bush got more people killed.

Trump may disrupt democracy in America.

Both bad, very bad.


(That said, Bush seems like a very nice man. Not a deep thinker, not self reflective, he just went along with his terrible, horrible advisors and is thus responsible for hundreds of thousands, or even millions of deaths. But he seems very personable and nice to those around him.)
 
I selected that Trump is way worse. However, there is one respect in which Trump is much better than Bush. He hasn't gotten us into any unnecessary wars (yet. Give him four more years, and I think it's very likely that he will stumble into a war, and run it as Commander in Chief just as well as he has managed the Covd-19 response.)
 
Trump is worst for the US because he is literally trying to start a civil war.
Bush is worst for the Middle East for starting a couple of wars.
 
George W. Bush was probably the worst President in American history. In fact, comparing Bush to other US Presidents does a disservice to all other Presidents. George W. Bush was a world historic bad leader. It would really be only appropriate to rank him among the likes of Nero, Caligula, Robespierre and Idi Amin.
 
Bush got more people killed.

Trump may disrupt democracy in America.

Both bad, very bad.


(That said, Bush seems like a very nice man. Not a deep thinker, not self reflective, he just went along with his terrible, horrible advisors and is thus responsible for hundreds of thousands, or even millions of deaths. But he seems very personable and nice to those around him.)

Can we really say that someone is a nice man because they paint pictures (hey, you know who else was famous for his painting, right?)? I mean, the idea that, yeah, sure he killed hundreds of thousands of people is just a character flaw, seems a bit off. I mean, saying, he had terrible, horrible advisors doesn't really absolve him, does it? Surely the company you keep says a lot about a person - Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Ellen DeGeneres...

And disrupting democracy? Before that whole 9/11 thing, disrupting democracy was George Dubyadisrupting Democracy Bush's middle name. Remember that whole didn't win the popular vote and may not have won the electoral college vote but used his nepotistic ways - his brother, Jeb!, in Florida - to get some court shenanigans going...

Then after 9/11, the whole assault on democracy and civil liberties things really got going. There was that whole Patriot Act thing, the Department of Homeland Security, ICE, warrantless wiretapping, endless surveillance, extraordinary rendition, "enhanced interrogation" (you know, torture!!!), Abu Graib, Guantanamo Bay, "enemy combatants".

The Bush administration seemed to go against all of the old international norms such as national sovereignty, the Geneva Conventions. These are the kinds of arguments that were going on during Bush's time in office. Things like "Is this against international law?" "Should Bush and his cronies be in the Hague for war crimes?" Vincent Bugliosi wrote a book in which he called for Bush to be charged with murder.

I selected that Trump is way worse. However, there is one respect in which Trump is much better than Bush. He hasn't gotten us into any unnecessary wars (yet. Give him four more years, and I think it's very likely that he will stumble into a war, and run it as Commander in Chief just as well as he has managed the Covd-19 response.)

Oh sure, we don't know what Trump will do. I hope we never find out. But then again, I also remember it being confidently stated that Bush would invade Iran.
 
Ugh. Bush started unnecessary wars and committed war crimes with ordering torture, but he largely respected American institutions and traditions. Trump is committing domestic crimes against humanity and destroying American institutions and traditions.

So, which do you prefer for lunch, this **** sandwich or that **** on a bun?
 
Thank you for posting your vehement opinions, which is what I asked for. But come on, this is hyperbolic nonsense, right?

No, it isn't.

Trump, over and over, is telling his supporters that if he loses it's because of a rigged election.
Trump wants the US to burn if it won't let him be king.
 
But anyway, I want to know who you think is worse? Please answer the poll and leave vehement comments on this topic.

There is a "standing on the shoulders of giants" issue here.

It is Trump. At the time, we thought Bush was really bad, but we are on a totally different scale now.
 
Bush got more people killed.
I would have to say that that is... debatable.

Yes, Bush got the U.S. involved in multiple wars. But, I think even a large number of people who dislike Bush probably think military action in Afghanistan was justified. As for Iraq, most people say it was a mistake. (Admittedly, I thought there was some validity to the war at the time.) But, it is rather difficult to come up with a death toll, with estimates varying wildly.

On the other hand.... while Trump may not have started any wars in the middle east (at least not yet anyways), his military blunders there caused at least a few deaths. Then there was his Covid response. (While not every death can be attributed to Trump, the death rate far surpasses that of many/most other western countries. Plus, if you add in his other actions (killing Obamacare, cutting foreign aid and support for disease prevention in other countries), its possible that over the long term Trump will have caused more deaths than Bush.
 
Re: Trump...
He hasn't called for civil war.
In 2016, when faced with the prospect of a Clinton victory...

"Although the Second Amendment people — maybe there is, I don’t know."

Him... a suggestion that gun nuts take action against a legitimate government... Sounds pretty 'civil-warish' to me.
 
Bush may have been a bad president but at least he didn't see the US as a personal possession of his.
 
President Bush did one truly admirable thing that I recall. Right after the September 11 attacks, he had an Imam stand on the podium with other religious leaders, and he stressed to the nation that Islam was not the enemy. We needed to hear that from our leader right then.

I can't think of anything President Trump has said or done that was not despicable/embarrassing to the country at one level or another.
 
Arguably, a leader in a Democracy/Republic has only one job he/she has to perform: guarantee that there will be a legitimate successor.
Trump is working very hard to prevent this.
 
Who was a worse president? George W Bush or Donald J Trump?
Trump. All the way.

Lets compare their records, shall we?

Bush was far from perfect. His biggest problems were probably the Iraq war, and the economic melt-down. (In my opinion, while Bush deserves some of the blame for the recession, I think the problem actually extends back further than him, since other presidents had a hand in the deregulation that caused the problems.)

And I think there were things that Bush did well... his immediate response to 9/11 (instead of blaming "the muslims", he made it a point to stress that not all should be blamed), and his efforts to address the possibility of a global pandemic.

Trump? Well, he may not have started any wars, but his Covid19 response was just as devastating.... more american deaths than the Iraq and Afghanistan wars combined. A record of racism that bush never approached. More scandals (more of Trump's associates have been arrested/jailed than Bushes). And while Bush did not have a good environmental record, Trump seems to be actively trying to harm the environment.

Then there are the supreme court nominations. Trump has made 2 (so far).... Both Drunky McRapeface and Gorsuch were soundly rejected by the Democrats. On the other hand, Bush made 2... Roberts (who, while conservative, has shown to have at least some integrity) and Alito (who at least had 4 democrats voting to confirm).
 

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