Who owns "The Flash"?

[Abdul Alhazred]

From Newsday, the Long Island (NY) daily:

http://www.newsday.com/business/local/newyork/ny-bztime043832680jun04,0,2066227.story

By 1956 The Flash, 26, was slowing down, when an
editor at DC Comics commissioned Carmine Infantino to
breathe some life into the speedy superhero, a lawsuit
filed in Manhattan federal court says.

Infantino, a 79-year-old New York illustrator, says he
revived the declining character, originally created in 1940,
and now he wants a federal judge to declare that he, not
DC parent Time Warner Inc., owns the rights to the
fastest man alive.

Infantino says in his suit that he's also the creator of
Batgirl, and he wants a court to acknowledge that too.

He filed the copyright claim yesterday against Time Warner, the world's largest media company, and DC Comics, where he was once president. Infantino is seeking monetary damages and a ruling that he owns The Flash, Batgirl and other characters he says he created from 1943 to 1967.

 

[Cinorjer]

The big two comic book companies (DC and Marvel) have always refused to allow their writers and artists to own the rights to the characters they develop. This resulted in some great writers leaving for smaller companies (such as Image). There, these writers paint the big corporations as greedy and unfair.

But companies like DC also have a case to make. Comic book writers come and go, and these characters in the books evolve over time. Letting the writers own the characters would sink the company in a legal quagmire and require them to permanently retire many popular characters on the whim of the writer. The Flash is a case in point. The original Flash was a different man and had a different costume from the resurrected version. But who owns the "rights" to the name Flash? And then the second Flash (Barry) was killed off, and a new man now wears the costume. Who owns the rights to this version? And suppose you changed the costume but kept the character the same (aka Wolverine). Who now owns the rights?

The comic world as we know it would not be possible if the writers could claim copyright to the characters they produce for the company. Lawyers and courts being what they are, every popular character would remain permanently tied up in endless litigation.

 

[Upchurch]

The comic world as we know it would not be possible if the writers could claim copyright to the characters they produce for the company.

On the other hand, some characters are owned by their creators (I believe) and they seem to do quite well. Off the top of my head, consider Spawn and Sandman. Sandman even makes the occasional cameo in the DC world.

 

[Hexxenhammer]

On the other hand, some characters are owned by their creators (I believe) and they seem to do quite well. Off the top of my head, consider Spawn and Sandman. Sandman even makes the occasional cameo in the DC world.

I could be wrong, but I think DC owns Sandman. I think Neil Gaiman just took the existing (somewhat goofy) existing character and turned him all goth and cool. This in turn spawned DC's Vertigo imprint, which does have many creator owned titles. Most famously proabably, is Preacher.

 

[alfaniner]

Man, I miss The Flash. Just stopped buying comics about two years ago when my bookstore closed.

I think that was one of the best "superhero" series ever done on TV.

 

[Abdul Alhazred]

error please forgive

 

[Abdul Alhazred]

Man, I miss The Flash. Just stopped buying comics about two years ago when my bookstore closed.

I think that was one of the best "superhero" series ever done on TV.

Never ever heard of the TV show, but I sure loved the comic books back in the 1960s.

By the way, Carmine Infantino's is not the original Flash, this is:

 

[Cinorjer]

I believe the Neil Gaiman Sandman character was a special case, where the creator was given more rights than usual, including the right not to allow anyone else to use his characters in a story without his permission. And the result is that Neil killed off the Sandman (Morpheus) when he got tired of writing the stories. And the death will stick this time, because DC needs his permission to resurrect the character. Most writers don't get that sort of special treatment. I have mixed feelings about this. True, you don't want some hack bringing back Morpheus, but one of my favorite characters is gone for good.

And really, how many comic writers create complete universes and new characters, instead of taking over tired titles like Hulk or even Xmen? Most of the great work is being done in the independents, anyway. Neither DC or Marvel have much interest in promoting fresh new ideas, or giving a new title a chance to gain an audience. If you're not adding to the junk that appears as one of the countless Superman/Batman or Xmen/Spiderman titles, you'll get maybe a dozen issues, the sales will be small compared to the big sellers, and you'll be canceled.

 

[Marc]

Never ever heard of the TV show, but I sure loved the comic books back in the 1960s.

It ran sometime in the late 80's, early 90's. I remember missing a bunch of episodes because couldn't pick it up on my TV in college.

It was Police technician Barry Allen, teamed up with star labs scientists played by the woman from the Max Headroom show.

Loved the show. They used the current story of Flash's high caloric needs. For breakfast he had a bowl of cereal.... the entire box and a half gallon of milk. Downed it in about 8 seconds.

 

[alfaniner]

Yes, it was interesting in that they melded material from the Golden, Silver, and 'Platinum?' ages. I recall something like the Garrick apartments, and Infantino Boulevard being mentioned. In the comic at the time, Barry Allen was already dead, and Tina McGee was an aquaintance of the new Flash, Wally West (formerly Kid Flash). There were also lots of in-jokes or homages to the several incarnations. Barry is by far the most well-known, though.

 

[Neutron Jack]

Newsday says:
By 1956 The Flash, 26, was slowing down

Really? According to DC Comics, the Golden Age flash first appeared in 1940.

 

[Ossai]

Hexxenhammer

I could be wrong, but I think DC owns Sandman. I think Neil Gaiman just took the existing (somewhat goofy) existing character and turned him all goth and cool. This in turn spawned DC's Vertigo imprint, which does have many creator owned titles. Most famously proabably, is Preacher.

DC owns Sandman.
Sandman didn’t start the Vertigo line, that was Alan Moore and Swampthing, which spun off Hellblazer.

Upchurch

On the other hand, some characters are owned by their creators (I believe) and they seem to do quite well. Off the top of my head, consider Spawn and Sandman. Sandman even makes the occasional cameo in the DC world.

Spawn is owned by Todd McFarlane. Savage Dragon is creator owned by Eric Larson. All or at least most of the 1st run Image comics are creator owned.

Neutron Jack

Really? According to DC Comics, the Golden Age flash first appeared in 1940.

The first Flash was/is Jay Garrick. The 1956 version of the Flash was Barry Allen. A different character. After congressional hearings and the formation of the comic code authority (which basically broke EC comics – later became Mad – later still bought by DC), the comic industry was in a tailspin and the only books that they could safely and readily publish was the superhero comic. Some of the others were still around but tamed quiet a bit. They, DC, brought in Infantino who used the name Flash and completely revamped the character. Later ( early to mid 60s ) both the 1st and 2nd Flashes meet in the comics for the first time. <infinite realities, JSA/JLA worlds, crossovers, Earth 1, 2, … leading to Crisis>.

Ossai

 

[Upchurch]

I think Neil Gaiman just took the existing (somewhat goofy) existing character and turned him all goth and cool.

Different character, same name. They've even cameo'd in each other's comics (sorta).

It wouldn't surprise me if DC owns Sandman/Dream, but if they do, they seem to respect Gaiman enough to not take away creative control of the character. (Although I'm willing to admit that I might not be fully aware of all Sandman/Dream books.)

 

[Nova Land]

Neutron Jack already mentioned the arithmetic flub (1940 to 1956 = 16 years, not 26). The other thing that jumps out at me from the opening post quote of Newsday, is the key omission in this passage:

... when an editor at DC Comics commissioned Carmine Infantino to breathe some life into the speedy superhero...

Infantino is an artist, and he was commissioned to design the visual aspect of the revived Flash. However, it is not my understanding that he had that much to do with the writing aspect.

The editor in question was Julius Schwartz, who recently died. There are a number of articles about him that have appeared recently about him and his legacy (including the revival of the Flash, which many credit as starting the Silver Age).

The writer of the first story of the new Flash was Robert Kanigher, and the other story in that issue of Showcase was, as I recall, written by John Broome (who went on to write most of the early stories of the new Flash, being joined occasionally after the character was given a book of his own by Gardner Fox). All three of these writers had worked on the Jay-Garrick Flash during the Golden Age, with Gardner Fox being the creator (or, at least, original writer).

I will be interested to hear Infantino's account of the creation of the Flash, what parts of this creation he takes credit for and what parts he credits to Schwartz and Kanigher.

 

[Bottle or the Gun]

Dave Cockrum, the artist who helped re-design and revive the X-Men, and who's characters are in films, books and television that have earned millions is getting crap from the owners of the characters.

Cockrum is also struggling to pay medical bills from an illness, something that shoud have been a little easier for him given the amount of money the X-Men have generated in the last decade.

But he has no share of the creator rights.

 

[Nova Land]

Different character, same name. They've even cameo'd in each other's comics (sorta).

It wouldn't surprise me if DC owns Sandman/Dream, but if they do, they seem to respect Gaiman enough to not take away creative control of the character. (Although I'm willing to admit that I might not be fully aware of all Sandman/Dream books.)

How many ways do they Sandman? Let me count the ways...

The first version of Sandman DC published was a gas-masked crime-fighter who appeared in Adventure Comics starting in early 1939. A couple years later they gave him a yellow-and-purple costume to make him more super-hero-ish, and soon after put Joe Simon and Jack Kirby on the strip as the new creative team. (Keep those names in mind...) The Sandman was a charter member of the Justice Society of America in the 1940s, so when DC brought back the Justice Society of America in the early 1960s (via "Flash of Two Worlds", a Flash story which revealed that the characters from Golden Age DC comics were real and lived on a parallel earth), the Sandman began appearing occasionally (such as in some of the annual JLA-JSA team-ups). Some of the JSA-ers, such as Spectre, Black Canary, Dr. Fate, Hourman and Starman, seemed popular enough for DC to give them try-outs for revival, but neither of the first 2 versions of the Sandman had enough going for DC to try that.

In the mid-1970s DC tried to come up with a new marketable take on the character (possibly in order to maintain their trademark on the character name). Joe Simon had been coming up with a number of oddball concepts for DC -- Prez, Green Team, The Outsiders, etc. -- and he (along with Jack Kirby) came up with a new Sandman who lived in the dream dimension. It lasted 6 issues, didn't do very well, and was cancelled. (I think this version of the character cropped up on a few occasions after that, but can't recall exactly when or where.)

In the late 1980s, following Alan Moore's success at taking odd DC characters and giving them new spins that fans actually enjoyed, DC began trying to find other writers to do the same thing. Neil Gaiman was one of the writers they approached, and Sandman was the character they agreed he would revamp. I think Gaiman found the specifics of the 1970s Simon & Kirby version a bit too silly to use, so all he kept was the name Sandman and the concept that he's the master of the realm of dreams.

The Gaiman version of Sandman did so well that DC desired a spin-off book to capitalize on the success. On the other hand, they didn't want to tick Gaiman off by treading on his toes. What they came up with was a Vertigo version of the original gas-masked Sandman, published as Sandman Mystery Theater. (Great series, by the way, although NFC*.) The characters had little in common besides the name, so the creative teams on these books didn't need to consult each other or worry about the consequences that storylines in the other book would have on theirs. These 2 different Sandman characters met (sort of) in a 64-page square-back special, Sandman Midnight Theater (which I think is what Upchurch is referring to).

That may not be all the DC versions, but if not I'm pretty sure it's most of them. (There is also, of course, the Marvel villain of that name.) My understanding is that DC owns all the versions it has published -- none is creator-owned. However, having learned a lesson from their mistreatment of Alan Moore regarding Watchmen (which caused him to refuse to write any more for DC), DC tried to do a better job of keeping Gaiman reasonably satisfied with the working arrangement on Sandman. Thus, when Gaiman came to the end of the Sandman stories he wanted to write on a regular basis, DC respected his wishes and cancelled the book rather than continue it with a different writer.

* NFC = Not For Children

 

[Nova Land]

Dave Cockrum, the artist who helped re-design and revive the X-Men, and who's characters are in films, books and television that have earned millions is getting crap from the owners of the characters.

Cockrum is also struggling to pay medical bills from an illness, something that shoud have been a little easier for him given the amount of money the X-Men have generated in the last decade.

But he has no share of the creator rights.

I read recently that Marvel, in response to this situation, came up with a way to pay Dave Cockrum a goodly sum of money for his contributions to X-Men (without, in the process, jeopardizing their own claim to own all the characters). Let me see if I can find something about it...

Okay, here we go: from the Silver Bullet Comic Books site:

Dave Cockrum's Hollywood Ending

By Clifford Meth

... When the news first broke that Marvel had settled with Dave Cockrum, Tony Isabella—who had just one day earlier declared “International Dave Cockrum Day” on his website—called me in double awe: First, that Marvel had given us anything, and second, that the story had received only the thinnest fig leaf of coverage on the industry webzines...

When I first brought news of Dave Cockrum’s illness here at SBC, I was angry at Marvel—angry because Cockrum had not received the same treatment (read: royalties) as Chris Claremont and Michael Golden and John Byrne and others who had created characters for the company. Cockrum’s plight was a matter of timing. The work he did pre-dated the expansion of the copyright law and Marvel’s “new character agreement incentive” response. And now, here was Cockrum, in critical condition, flat broke and unable to pay medical expenses, to say nothing of living expenses.

So I came out swinging. I began my column here, contacted peers in the press, discussed the matter with my pal Gary Dell’Abate at The Howard Stern Show, and began plans for a news conference at the V.A. Hospital where Cockrum resided. I was prepared to do whatever it took to bring attention to my friend’s plight. And anyone who knows me will tell you: I can be a serious pain in the ass.

Perhaps because of these efforts—and perhaps in spite of them—the media blitz became unnecessary. From the get-go, Marvel was cooperative. Joe Quesada visited the V.A. Hospital with me as Marvel’s ambassador of goodwill and he, Dave and I discussed the matter very candidly. Joe told us that day that Marvel wanted to help.

From there on in, it was just a matter of coming to terms. Dave had serious needs. Marvel had needs, too; they didn’t want to hand something to Dave only to find themselves in court with us a year later. So we negotiated, and we did so in good faith. Eli Bard, Marvel’s senior litigation counselor, was candid and amiable. And, at the end of the day, when an agreement was reached, it was smiles all around...

And Dave Cockrum will be released from the hospital and fly home to South Carolina next week.

And there’s some serious money waiting for him when he gets there...

Hmm. Doesn't say how much money or exactly what the settlement was. Let me look some more, and I'll post that later if I find more details ...

 

[Bottle or the Gun]

I hope they gave him a percentage of past and future uses of the characters.

 

[Nova Land]

In looking up the details on Dave Cockrum, I came across a comics site site with a discussion of the Infantino claim to have created the Flash and Batgirl. The opening post is based on the Newsday article, so doesn't provide much that isn't in the opening post here, but there are a few interesting posts in the discussion that follows.

 

[Nova Land]

Here's some more on Dave Cockrum. The coverage I previously saw appeared in Comics Buyer's Guide, April 16, 2004.

(1) Tony Isabella talked about it in his column, which he posts on-line so I am able to provide a link:

Marvel and Dave Cockrum, creator and artist of many popular Marvel characters, have reached an agreement which allows Marvel to fully own those characters while compensating Dave for his years of service and his seminal role in bringing those characters to comic-book life. The terms of the agreement are confidential, but, along with other industry events, this deal will help Dave and wife Paty get back on their feet and on with their lives in the wake of the financial burdens of Dave's long hospitalization...

That there are heroes in this story is no secret. Neal Adams and Clifford Meth were tireless in their support of the Cockrums. Comics fans and pros alike contributed, in one way or another, to the cause of making things better for the Cockrums. You can learn about the afore-mentioned "industry events" by visiting the TRIBUTE SITE FOR DAVE COCKRUM.

I think it should also be noted that there are no villains in this story. Marvel found a way to help Dave and his family without jeopardizing its own interests. Imagine that: A comics publisher found a way to do right by a comics creator and the world didn't come to an end.

(2) From a page 1 news story in the April 16 CBG:

Marvel agrees to Cockrum compensation

Marvel Comics has agreed to a contract with Dave Cockrum, who designed such X- Men characters as Nightcrawler, Storm, Colossus, Mystique, and Thunderbird in 1975. The arrangement will designate Marvel as full owner of the many characters he drew; Cockrum will receive financial help that, with other industry support, is designed to restore his family’s solvency after months of the artist’s illness

Hospitalized since the beginning of the year, Cockrum has been suffering from ailments including a heart attack, a possible series of small strokes, kidney failure, Stage II diabetes, a lung infection, and two bouts of pneumonia.

On March 25, Cockrum’s friend writer Clifford Meth told CBG, “The tribute book in progress to help raise funds has been enormously heartening to Dave and his wife, Paty. I’m happy to announce that, as of two days ago, Dave picked up a pencil; the tremors have stopped in his right hand.”

(3) From a news story on page 24 of that issue:

Dave Cockrum, whose career includes designing such X-Men as Nightcrawler, Storm, Colossus, Mystique, and Thunderbird, has been confined to a hospital since late last year, at first including a lengthy stay on the critical list. In response to concerns regarding his failing health, his finan- cial situation, and Cockrum’s importance in the evolution of its foremost super-team, Marvel Comics orally agreed on St. Patrick’s Day to a contract with Cockrum that, while it confirms Marvel as full owner of the characters he drew, will provide financial help to return the artist and his family to solvency....

A group came together to find out what could be done in cooperation with the publisher. After a flurry of communications, Meth approached Marvel Editor in Chief Joe Quesada. “Joe was very concerned. He went to the hospital with me and helped me open a dialogue with Marvel. Things moved along, and Marvel’s attorney was nothing but nice and human to me. Everybody was concerned, and I outlined a plan we thought would be fair. From Day One, they made it clear they were going to do something."

Meth called ensuing talks “a nice round of cooperative dialogues.” In addition to Marvel’s agreement, there are projects in the works. Not only has Aardwolf set up The Uncanny Dave Cockrum Tribute Book, but there are plans for a new Futurians project, which Cockrum owns....

Note: The Futurians was a fun super-hero team book which Cockrum wrote and drew a couple decades ago. There was a graphic novel (published by Marvel) introducing the team, followed by several issues of the series (published by Lodestone), before the book abruptly vanished.

One way to show support for Cockrum is to ask about The Futurians at comic stores (in order to let retailers know there is interest, so they will actually order copies) and to buy copies when it comes out.