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Who is responsible for more deaths, the Republican Party or the Taliban?

Who is responsible for more deaths, the Republican Party or the Taliban?

  • The Republican Party

    Votes: 23 71.9%
  • The Taliban

    Votes: 4 12.5%
  • Usually there is a humorous Planet X option, but there's nothing funny about this subject.

    Votes: 5 15.6%

  • Total voters
    32

shemp

a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
69,494
Location
The U.S., a wretched hive of scum and villainy.
The answer depends on how many Covid deaths you think could have been avoided if it weren't for the GQP's slash and burn strategy, plus any others you can think of (war in Iraq, results of global warming denial, war on drugs, etc.). I think the answer is pretty clear.
 
I'm pretty sure the Civil War accounts for a couple of deaths, but of course it takes two to tango so it's not entirely the Republican Party's fault.
 
Hard to say. We have really poor data on Afghanistan between when the Muj kicked out the Soviets and 2002.
 
Who is responsible for more deaths, the Republican Party or the Taliban?
You mean the Afghan islamist Taliban or the American conservative Christian Taliban? I'm tempted to say the latter, although they are also the ones I would rather live under if I had to choose between the two.
 
The answer depends on how many Covid deaths you think could have been avoided if it weren't for the GQP's slash and burn strategy, plus any others you can think of (war in Iraq, results of global warming denial, war on drugs, etc.). I think the answer is pretty clear.

Might be totally wrong and crazy, but have heard a rumour the US Dems have been in charge during Covid.
 
Might be totally wrong and crazy, but have heard a rumour the US Dems have been in charge during Covid.

It's not about who is in charge, it's about who is pushing the ideas that will protect you from dying from COVID-19 and who are the ones pushing ideas that will get you killed by it.
 
Lessee....Biden and the Dems as Senate majority took over on Jan. 20, 2021...7 months ago. The GOP was in charge from...lessee...Feb. 2020 when the first US Covid death occurred and for the next year. But someone here thinks the Dems have been in charge during Covid. And during those 7 months, a fraction of the amount of people have died than during the preceding year because they've made the vaccine available to everyone over the age of 12. Sadly, the vast majority of people refusing to get vaccinated are Republicans. But, 'the Dems are in charge during Covid'. Yup...

 
Our annual death rate caused by our mockery of a health care "system" is over 40000. Democrats certainly also have their share of the blame for it, but not as much as the Republicans, and, if the Republicans weren't so insistent on keeping it this way, those Democrats who are going along with them wouldn't be. So that's more per year than the totals for most recent military engagements.
 
If the death count is limited to American citizens, the answer is clear. All terrorist activity combined, abroad and at home, doesn't come close. Hell, Dump is directly responsible for more deaths among Americans than deaths at the hands of enemy combatants in a number of wars.
 
Opinion: Republicans treated Covid like a bioweapon. Then it turned against them.

Trump’s team reportedly believed that coronavirus would hurt Democratic states – and Democratic governors – worse. But the virus does not discriminate

Some of the most powerful conservatives in the United States have, since the beginning of the Covid-19 pandemic, chosen to sow disinformation along with mockery and distrust of proven methods of combating the disease, from masks to vaccines to social distancing. Their actions have afflicted the nation as a whole with more disease and death and economic crisis than good leadership aligned with science might have, and, in spite of hundreds of thousands of well-documented deaths and a new surge, they continue. Their malice has become so normal that its real nature is rarely addressed. Call it biological warfare by propaganda.

Call Jared Kushner the spiritual heir of the army besieging the city of Caffa on the Black Sea in 1346, which, according to a contemporaneous account, catapulted plague-infected corpses over the city walls. This is sometimes said to be how the Black Death came to Europe, where it would kill tens of millions of people – a third of the European population – over the next 15 years. A Business Insider article from a year ago noted: “Kushner’s coronavirus team shied away from a national strategy, believing that the virus was hitting Democratic states hardest and that they could blame governors.” An administration more committed to saving lives than scoring points could have contained the pandemic rather than made the US the worst-hit nation in the world. Illnesses and casualties could have been far lower, and we could have been better protected against the Delta variant.

At the outset of the pandemic, as Seattle and New York City became hard hit, Republicans apparently imagined that the pandemic would strike Democratic states and cities first, and certainly in 2020 Black, Latinx and indigenous people were disproportionately affected. To put it clearly, Republicans enabled a campaign of mass death and disablement, thinking it would be primarily mean death and illness for those they regarded as opponents.

Call Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham the spiritual heirs of Lord Jeffery Amherst, the British military commander who in 1763 wrote to an underling, “Could it not be contrived to send the Small Pox among those disaffected tribes of Indians?” As the New York Times put it with characteristic mildness, “Mr Carlson, Ms Ingraham and guests on their programs have said on the air that the vaccines could be dangerous; that people are justified in refusing them; and that public authorities have overstepped in their attempts to deliver them.” Newsweek was more blunt, quoting Ingraham herself saying that the vaccine was an attempt to push an “experimental drug on Americans against their will – threatening them, threatening to deprive them of basic liberties, if they don’t comply.” The goal was to rile up the audience – and prevent them from getting vaccinated, while the evidence was clear that the vaccines prevent both disease in the vaccinated and the spread of disease. Vaccines are, incidentally, how smallpox was eliminated worldwide.

There is of course another angle to the conservative response to the pandemic. In far-right ideology, freedom – for white men especially – is an absolute goal. Even recognizing the systems in which we are all enmeshed might burden the free person with obligations to others and to the whole. Science itself is a series of descriptions of our enmeshedness: of how pesticides travel beyond the crops they’re sprayed on, of the way that fossil fuel emissions contribute to health problems and climate change, of how the spread of disease can be prevented by collective action. Rightwing ideology, after all, has emphasised the right to own and carry a gun over the right to be free of being menaced or murdered by guns, as thousands are in the US every year.

But just as the right to brandish guns is defended in the face of those gun deaths, so the right to contract and spread a sometimes lethal and often debilitating disease is defended as the antithesis of the responsibility not to do so. It’s safe to assume that the Republican leadership knows better, and that some of their followers do and some don’t. Some have chosen to engage in biological warfare; some are merely tools being used in that warfare. That is, some of them are unwitting corpses being catapulted over the walls, unconscious smallpox blankets; some of them are Amherst in spirit. Those using fake vaccine cards – as college students, and two recent travelers from the US to Canada have – are definitely Amhersts.
 
The answer depends on how many Covid deaths you think could have been avoided if it weren't for the GQP's slash and burn strategy, plus any others you can think of (war in Iraq, results of global warming denial, war on drugs, etc.). I think the answer is pretty clear.

Plus any others I can think of?

About 241,000 people have been killed in the Afghanistan and Pakistan war zone since 2001.


It seems we don't have really good estimates for the number of people killed by Republicans during the American Civil War.

Wikipedia attributes the following figures to the US National Park Service, citing a web page that is now defunct:
Wikipedia said:
Union: 853,838
  • 110,100 killed in action
  • 224,580 disease deaths
  • 275,154 wounded in action
  • 211,411 captured (including 30,192 who died as POWs)
Confederate: 914,660
  • 94,000 killed in action
  • 164,000 disease deaths
  • 194,026 wounded in action
  • 462,634 captured (including 31,000 who died as POWs)
If we blame Republicans for the 94,000 Confederate soldiers killed in action along with the 164,000 who died of disease and the 31,000 who died as POWs, that makes 289,000, which already surpasses the number of people known to be killed by the Taliban since 2001.

The rationale given for the 2003 invasion of Iraq was based upon Republican errors and/or lies, so it seems reasonable to attribute that war's deaths to Republicans. Estimates range from 100,000 violent deaths to as many as a million (not all by direct violence).

In September 2020, an analysis that set out to "estimate the proportion of COVID-19 deaths attributable to President Donald Trump’s early pronouncements about voluntary mask use and his intention not to use masks" arrived at rough estimates ranging from 4200 to 12000. Estimates published in February 2021 suggest that 180,000 of US COVID-19 deaths could have been avoided had President Trump handled the crisis as well as his peers did in other wealthy nations.

So it looks as though Republicans were responsible for more deaths than the Taliban during the years 1860-2021, and also during the one year 2020, but the Taliban might win this contest if we look only at a period such as 2005-2015.
 
Carlson was 'embarrassed' to be an American

I seem to recall a few years back some Democrat said that s/he was 'embarrassed' or 'ashamed' to be an American. I can't remember who it was. But I remember the howling outrage from the right. Does anyone remember the incident?

As for TC's glowing report of how immigrants are treated at the border, does he really think he wasn't seeing what they wanted him to see? This is his report:

While we were on the border today, the Serbian border in Hungary, we saw two people who attempted to come illegally. Both of them turned out to be from Syria, and we watched what happened when they were apprehended. It was a very straightforward process, so straightforward that it was a little confusing to watch.

They came over the border, they were immediately picked up by Border Patrol. They were brought to a detainment area. They were treated politely. We were there the whole time.

They were photographed. They were searched for weapons on the outside of their clothing and then they were escorted through a door, and we followed them. We thought they were going to further processing or to meet with their attorneys or some Soros-funded NGO, and then moved into some other part of Hungary to stay there forever, at least a few years.

But that's not what it was. That door was the border, and as we followed them through, they were escorted back where they came from, into Serbia and they can apply for asylum somewhere else.

That is straight forward immigration policy. No, you're not allowed to come here illegally. I'm sorry. This is a real country. We have laws. It works.

And it doesn't require a GDP the size of the United States' GDP. It doesn't require high tech walls or guns or surveillance equipment, all it requires is the will to do it and as we watched this happen, we said to a Hungarian Minister who was standing there, it's hard to believe that's your policy, when you come here illegally, you're just escorted out politely? And he said quote: "We're a serious country."

How embarrassing to be an American in a conversation like that, to realize the greatest country on Earth is not on some level a serious country because it allows the chaos that inevitably occurs, the human suffering that inevitably occurs when you open your borders.

How lovely. Only this is not how it's described by the immigrants themselves:

Human Rights Watch also interviewed 12 people who were apprehended on Hungarian territory after trying to enter irregularly who said they had entered Hungary in groups including women and children. They said they were brutally beaten and abused by officials and then pushed back to Serbia. They said that officials often used spray that caused burning sensations to their eyes, set dogs on them, kicked and beat them with batons and fists, put plastic handcuffs on them and forced them through small openings in the razor wire fence, causing further injuries.
One man who had been stopped inside Hungary in a group of 30 to 40 people, including women and children, said they were beaten for two hours: “I haven’t even seen such beating in the movies. Five or six soldiers took us one by one to beat us. They tied our hands with plastic handcuffs on our backs. They beat us with everything, with fists, kicks and batons. They deliberately gave us bad injuries.”
Another member of the group, who still had visible injuries 16 days later, said the police set dogs on the group, causing him to fall, and that a police officer either kicked or hit him in the face as he lay on the ground.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/07/13/hungary-migrants-abused-border

TC was used by Orban and he's too stupid to see it. Or he isn't and just doesn't care as long as it's useful to him and his agenda.
 

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