Who are the anti-semites?

[varwoche]

In another thread, the following claim was made:

In North America, there are far more people on the left that dislike Jews then on the right.

The purpose of this thread is to test this claim. While it's impossible to measure "dislike", there are facts we can sample. I propose the following:

I will provide citations to right-wing, anti-semitic websites. For each of these cites, Caper (or whoever) will post a citation to a left-wing, anti-semitic website. The more substantive the source, the more weight we'll assign. That is, an organization such as VDARE will be given more weight than a kid posting from his parent's basement.

Mind you, disapproving of Israeli actions/policies does not qualify as anti-semitism.

Caper, are you game?

 

[Belz...]

This is why this made-up left-right divide is so obnoxious: it just distracts from the actual issues, in this case, anti-semitism.

 

[ahhell]

Every example will be met with an argument of what constitutes left or right and of course, number of websites does not equal the number of anti-semites or even number of anti-semitic groups. For what ever my opinion is worth, seems to me the right wing anti-semites seem to be much more open and clear cut about it. "We hate jews" versus "we hate what the jews er I mean zionists".

 

[Zivan]

Every example will be met with an argument of what constitutes left or right and of course, number of websites does not equal the number of anti-semites or even number of anti-semitic groups. For what ever my opinion is worth, seems to me the right wing anti-semites seem to be much more open and clear cut about it. "We hate jews" versus "we hate what the jews er I mean zionists".

Yes, ^ exactly. Number of websites do not equal what occurs in real life.

Claiming to be "anti-semitic" is not politically correct for some people so they refuse to admit they are. They just use a more politically correct/socially acceptable word for it. But their words and actions are still the same.

 

[varwoche]

Every example will be met with an argument of what constitutes left or right

I intend to post unambiguous examples, and I expect the same of Caper (or whoever).

and of course, number of websites does not equal the number of anti-semites or even number of anti-semitic groups.

Agreed. This is a thought experiment, and the results won't be definitive.

For what ever my opinion is worth, seems to me the right wing anti-semites seem to be much more open and clear cut about it. "We hate jews" versus "we hate what the jews er I mean zionists".

This impresses me as preemptive weaseling. Either the claim is supportable or else it's fact-free posturing.

 

[jeffas69]

I intend to post unambiguous examples, and I expect the same of Caper (or whoever).

Agreed. This is a thought experiment, and the results won't be definitive.

This impresses me as preemptive weaseling. Either the claim is supportable or else it's fact-free posturing.

If the results won't be definitive why bother. You should take the highlighted back to the other thread and apply it to the inferred claim in the title.

 

[ahhell]

I won't call it factful, call it weasely if you like.

 

[varwoche]

If the results won't be definitive why bother. You should take the highlighted back to the other thread and apply it to the inferred claim in the title.

Does not compute. It can be informative even if not definitive.

 

[I Am The Scum]

I don't think this is a good measuring device. What if someone posts the same antisemitic message on five different sites? Is that one, or five?

Besides, I strongly suspect that criticism of Israel is being equated with antisemitism.

 

[jeffas69]

Does not compute. It can be informative even if not definitive.

If you wish to peruse the internet for anti-semetic websites and analyze the content inside to establish "something" that you admit is likely to be meaningless then have at it. I have no need of such "information."

 

[varwoche]

I don't think this is a good measuring device. What if someone posts the same antisemitic message on five different sites? Is that one, or five?

Individual messages don't qualify. I'll be citing distinct organizations / name brand individuals who are unambiguously right-wing, and unambiguously anti-semitic.

If you have a better measuring device, I'm all ears.

Besides, I strongly suspect that criticism of Israel is being equated with antisemitism.

Indeed.

 

[varwoche]

If you wish to peruse the internet for anti-semetic websites and analyze the content inside to establish "something" that you admit is likely to be meaningless then have at it. I have no need of such "information."

I don't share your binary perspective. Thank you for permission to proceed.

 

[jeffas69]

I don't share your binary perspective. Thank you for permission to proceed.

The increase in traffic to such sites, however small it would be, is enough for me to ask that no one else participate. And with that I am done here!

 

[Zivan]

Besides, I strongly suspect that criticism of Israel is being equated with antisemitism.

What is it called when a jew is shut down and NOT allowed to say anything that is NOT critical of Israel? But, that same jew is allowed to speak when they DO say something critical of Israel?

("good jew"/"bad jew")

 

[baron]

For the purpose of this exercise, are Islamists left or right?

 

[Ziggurat]

The purpose of this thread is to test this claim.

Then find a sensible metric. You're just proposing to measure your google-fu.

The more substantive the source, the more weight we'll assign.

How? By committee? By popular vote? By appeal to some impartial judge?

Your metric isn't going to work.

 

[blutoski]

Every example will be met with an argument of what constitutes left or right...

And also an argument about what constitutes antisemtism.

varwoche wrote:

...disapproving of Israeli actions/policies does not qualify as anti-semitism...

Well, I hate to point out the obvious, but a lot of people actually use that as their core definition of antisemitism.

 

[Arcade22]

If you don't like Israel as a country, because of how it's government and state behaves, that necessarily means that you hate Jews and want gas them all to death. You're either with Israel 100% or you hate all Jews ever.

It's that simple.

 

[Jungle Jim]

According to the Anti Defamation League the majority of anti sematism actions are conducted by white supremacists. They don't identify them as being left or right.
https://www.adl.org/blog/us-anti-semitism-in-2017-heres-the-facts

 

[Loss Leader]

As an actual, card-carrying Jew, my experience has been that the vast weight of antisemitism comes from people who identify as conservative or farther right.

I think the myth that the left is antisemitic arises from the notion that it is somehow antisemitic to in any way disagree with hard-line Israeli policies regarding the Palestinians. Certainly there are some orthodox Jews (like Trump's son in law) who votee with Republicans because of a perception that they more strongly support Israel.

My personal feeling is that if Israelis themselves can't agree on what to do, it doesn't make me anti-Zionist to also be conflicted about the issues.

n.b. I've been to Israel. It is, above all other things, hot.