White House Castigates Dick Durbin over Gitmo...

[headscratcher4]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050616...qqXK0Gs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2bW85OXIzBHNlYwNwbA--

apparently -- according to this Administration -- if you voice concerns that our policies and treatment of prisoners at Gitmo not only provides our enemies with amunition but is antithetical to our stated values, you are helping the enemy and should be condemend.

But, if you analogize liberal democracy to slavery, you are worthy of a seat on the Federal Court of Appeals (a'la Judge Brown).

 

[Grammatron]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050616...qqXK0Gs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2bW85OXIzBHNlYwNwbA--

apparently -- according to this Administration -- if you voice concerns that our policies and treatment of prisoners at Gitmo not only provides our enemies with amunition but is antithetical to our stated values, you are helping the enemy and should be condemend.

But, if you analogize liberal democracy to slavery, you are worthy of a seat on the Federal Court of Appeals (a'la Judge Brown).

Link doesn't work.

 

[headscratcher4]

Couldn't make the link work...am a techno-idiot ...anyway report from the AP:


White House Castigates Durbin for Remarks By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 54 minutes ago

The White House said a senator's comparison of American interrogators at Guantanamo Bay to Nazis, Soviet gulags and Khmer Rouge leader Pol Pot was reprehensible and a disservice to those serving in the military.

White House press secretary Scott McClellan said it is "beyond belief" that Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin would compare treatment of dangerous enemy combatants at Guantanamo Bay to the death of millions of innocent people by oppressive regimes.

"Our men and women in uniform go out of their way to treat detainees humanely, and they go out of their way to uphold the values and the laws that we hold so dear in this country," McClellan said.

Durbin, the Senate's No. 2 Democrat, made the comparison during a speech on the Senate floor Tuesday after reading an FBI agent's report describing detainees at the Naval base in Guantanamo Bay as being chained to the floor without food or water in extreme temperatures.

"If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime — Pol Pot or others — that had no concern for human beings," Durbin said.

Said McClellan: "I think the senator's remarks are reprehensible. It's a real disservice to our men and women in uniform who adhere to high standards and uphold our values and our laws."

A Durbin spokesman said Wednesday that the senator did not plan to apologize for the comments. The senator issued a statement saying it's the administration that should apologize "for abandoning the Geneva Conventions and authorizing torture techniques that put our troops at risk and make Americans less secure."

Human-rights groups and other congressional Democrats have accused the administration of unjustly detaining suspects at Guantanamo. Amnesty International recently called the prison "the gulag of our time" and some Republicans have questioned whether it should remain open.

 

[aerocontrols]

apparently -- according to this Administration -- if you voice concerns that our policies and treatment of prisoners at Gitmo not only provides our enemies with amunition but is antithetical to our stated values, you are helping the enemy and should be condemend.

I missed the part of the article where the Administration said that Senator Durbin was helping the enemy.

Also, usually when a link doesn't work it's because you've left the "Automatically parse URLs" option pre-checked. Just uncheck it and you should be able to link to your webpage.


Edit to fix wording of link advice.

 

[zenith-nadir]

I don't think they are as pissed about Dick Durbin (D-IL) concerns over Gitmo as they are about his over-the-top comparison of Gitmo to;

Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime -- Pol Pot or others....link

 

[TragicMonkey]

I don't think they are as pissed about Dick Durbin (D-IL) concerns over Gitmo as they are about his over-the-top comparison of Gitmo to;

It sounds as if he was comparing the activities that go on there. He apparently cited some specific events the FBI found to occur at Guantanamo, and asked the floor if they thought that sounded like something they'd expect more from Americans, or from those nasty people?

Yeah, you can deflect it into "He said Americans are like Pol Pot!!!!!", or you can answer his question-- is this the sort of behavior Americans should be engaging in? If so, then admit it. If not, then fix it. Blathering about "insults" is simply noise to cover up the lack of action. Either bad things are happening and need to be fixed, or else bad things aren't happening and that needs to be demonstrated so false accusations can be stamped out.

 

[headscratcher4]

Re: Re: White House Castigates Dick Durbin over Gitmo...

I missed the part of the article where the Administration said that Senator Durbin was helping the enemy.

Also, usually when a link doesn't work it's because you've left the "Automatically parse URLs" link pre-checked. Just uncheck it and you should be able to link to your webpage.

Ok, maybe a little creative interpretation omp..here's my real concern. We should be concerned that the whole process -- which is has so little credible oversight -- not only puts our national values and aspirations regarding human rights to shame, it is that process -- not, IMO, any over the top comparrisons -- that put our troops in danger.

Durbin seems to be saying that if you heard about some of these conditions without knowing they were created by the U.S....they could sound like conditions in judicial systems that we often castigate. I am emarassed that the best argument on behalf of our process here that the Administration can muster is: it's not Cuba, Russia or Nazi Germany or that it is better than what these prisoners would face in their own country or under regimes lead by their ideology. Is that the standard that we've sunk to?

Durbin's point, like Amnesty -- admittedly stated with over-the-top political rhetoric (unlike, of course, the Administration which is above rhetoric or politics) -- is concern for our national soul. A little, harmless troture of nameless terrorists is not only hypocritical, it can snowball into a society that accepts torture and denile of human rights for the sake of security. We are, of course a long way away, but the slope is slippery and the sliding is fast....

 

[WildCat]

The problem w/ Durbin's remarks is that it is over-the-top and unnecessarily inflames islamists further. Pol Pot? Nazis? Gulags? That is a ridiculous comparison, and it's completely irresponsible of him to say that. Remember when Bush foolishly used the word "crusade" to describe the fight against terrorism? Many here who were aghast at that gaffe see no problem w/ Durbin's even more poorly chosen phrasing. Prisoners in real Gulags would have been thrilled if their torture amounted to too much A/C or unbearably bad pop music.

I'll bet Al Jazeera and othe mideast "news" outlets are all over that remark. And it will be spun in those areas to make it sound as if the US is actually rounding up and killing millions of muslims only for being muslim, as the Nazis did to Jews, the Soviets did to dissenters, and Pol Pot did to anyone who was educated. Look, even US Senator Dick Durbin says so! What a jackass.

If you want to debate Gitmo, fine. But try to be responsible about it. That's all I'm asking. Durbin is risking the lives of US troops and civilians for cheap political gain, and I find it revolting.

 

[SezMe]

Durbin is risking the lives of US troops and civilians for cheap political gain, and I find it revolting.

No, Bush, et. al. are risking US troops by initiating such behavior, getting a lacky to dance a lega dance to justify it then make him AG, allowing it to happen and 1) hang so grunts at the bottom of the ladder and 2) at the top of the ladder Rummy says he takes responsibility and then THAT IS IT. And letting the mess continue to this day. And ghosting prisoners - some to countries so they can be "legally" tortured. And Bush calling it a crusade, buries the remark but to this day invokes a Christian god in a war on Isla...terror.

So Durbin maybe uses a bit of extreme language to make a point and WildCat says he (Durbin) is putting US lives at risk. Tell me, WildCat, of Durbin's remarks and the actions in my first paragraph, which creates more peril for us?