Which God-boy are you voting for?

[Charlie Monoxide]

I just finished watching the final debate tonight. Both candidates did well and "stayed on message". The sloganeering from the first debate seemed to have returned, especially for Kerry.

With all this religeon and faith stuff that both candidates professed, Badnarik of the Libertarian party is starting to look good.

If god is so important to these two men, why can't god choose by striking one of them with lightning or some otherly "godly" thing?

Charlie (alienated atheist) Monoxide

 

[Matabiri]

If god is so important to these two men, why can't god choose by striking one of them with lightning or some otherly "godly" thing?

Because God is bipartisan.

 

[geni]

Well to be fair kerry did include people of no faith.

(god refuses to strike either with lightening on the basis that politicians are not his to play with)

 

[varwoche]

Well to be fair kerry did include people of no faith.

Didn't Bush also?

 

[Jude]

Didn't Bush also?

I recall Bush expressly stating Muslims and Christians, but I don't recall anything about atheists.

 

[Ed]

Well to be fair kerry did include people of no faith.

(god refuses to strike either with lightening on the basis that politicians are not his to play with)

I refuse to strike either with lightining because they are beneath contempt.

 

[Brown]

I recall Bush expressly stating Muslims and Christians, but I don't recall anything about atheists.

About the closest Bush came was this:

But I'm mindful in a free society that people can worship if they want to or not. You're equally an American if you choose to worship an almighty and if you choose not to.

Some might argue that this is a back-handed insult, in that Bush is saying that there is an Almighty but the government cannot compel worship of Him. I believe, however, that no insult was intended. I also suggest that anyone who would criticize Bush for this remark should also criticize Kerry, because his remarks were similar, but phrased in terms of "practice" rather than "worship":

And as president, I will always respect everybody's right to practice religion as they choose -- or not to practice -- because that's part of America.

 

[Ipecac]

I found the god-speak somewhat depressing. When will we ever have a President who can forego all that nonsense?

In light of Bush Senior's comments about atheists, I was pleased to hear W's statement about those who don't worship still being American. But I don't really believe that he thinks that way. Kerry's remarks were troubling in that he was kowtowing to the religious, but he's still saying more of the right things than Bush on this issue.

 

[corplinx]

I just finished watching the final debate tonight. Both candidates did well and "stayed on message". The sloganeering from the first debate seemed to have returned, especially for Kerry.

With all this religeon and faith stuff that both candidates professed, Badnarik of the Libertarian party is starting to look good.

If god is so important to these two men, why can't god choose by striking one of them with lightning or some otherly "godly" thing?

Charlie (alienated atheist) Monoxide

I heard a story the other day about Clinton mentioned Jesus more than Bush and even said his presidency was providence. I had always assumed Bush mentioned Jesus/God an inordinate amount of times because that was the meme and I didn't think to question it because it sounded right.

Now we have Kerry who indicated last night that his christian faith guides his socialistic thinking.

On the other hand we have Bush who indicated that his faith is at the roots of his policy of regime change.

So, which faith driven candidate are you going to vote for on Nov. 2?

 

[Tmy]

I find most politicians to be insencere when it comes to religion. Going to chruch is little more than a photo op. Its pandering at the highest level.

 

[Kodiak]

I found the god-speak somewhat depressing. When will we ever have a President who can forego all that nonsense?

They're both acting in accordance with their faith.

I suspect that the first President that will ever "forego all the nonsence" will be an agnostic/atheist. Until then, we'll have to keep putting up with theists and their beliefs.

 

[toddjh]

I suspect that the first President that will ever "forego all the nonsence" will be an agnostic/atheist. Until then, we'll have to keep putting up with theists and their beliefs.

I don't think even an atheist would be able to "forego all the nonsense." The God talk is a political necessity for presidential candidates now and for the foreseeable future. I always tell people never to assume that a politician is a Christian just because he pretends to be one. I think there are more atheists in office than most of us suspect.

Jeremy

 

[punchdrunk]

Re: Re: Which God-boy are you voting for?

I heard a story the other day about Clinton mentioned Jesus more than Bush and even said his presidency was providence. I had always assumed Bush mentioned Jesus/God an inordinate amount of times because that was the meme and I didn't think to question it because it sounded right.

Now we have Kerry who indicated last night that his christian faith guides his socialistic thinking.

On the other hand we have Bush who indicated that his faith is at the roots of his policy of regime change.

So, which faith driven candidate are you going to vote for on Nov. 2?

Does Kerry plan on pursuing any faith-based initiatives? Does Kerry support a constitutional admendment restricting the rights of a gay couple to marry, because God is against it? Has Kerry ever said anything that leads you to believe he would use the Oval Office to compromise the idea of separation of church and state?

Don't get me wrong, the religious posturing in which both candidates engage is sickening, but Kerry's is just that - posturing. Bush, on the other hand, is actively starting to tear down that separation. There is a significant difference in my opinion.

 

[TragicMonkey]

They're both acting in accordance with their faith.

I suspect that the first President that will ever "forego all the nonsence" will be an agnostic/atheist. Until then, we'll have to keep putting up with theists and their beliefs.

I think a Catholic president would go lighter on the god-speak than a Protestant one. Most American Catholics tend not to discuss religious beliefs; it's almost but not quite bad taste to mention stuff like that. Go to church, get the sacraments, but don't gab about it. The Catholics I've met who've been vocal about religion are invariably converts from another denomination. You can spot them a mile off by their earnest air and the fact that they actually sit in the front of the church. My most Catholic relatives find enthusiasm for religion embarrassing; even the priests and nuns change the subject!

Plus, a Catholic president would be extra-careful to tone down the god-speak for fear of reminding fundamentalist Protestants that he's part of the Scarlet Woman of Babylon.

 

[corplinx]

Re: Re: Re: Which God-boy are you voting for?

Does Kerry plan on pursuing any faith-based initiatives? Does Kerry support a constitutional admendment restricting the rights of a gay couple to marry, because God is against it? Has Kerry ever said anything that leads you to believe he would use the Oval Office to compromise the idea of separation of church and state?

Don't get me wrong, the religious posturing in which both candidates engage is sickening, but Kerry's is just that - posturing. Bush, on the other hand, is actively starting to tear down that separation. There is a significant difference in my opinion.

You've fallen for the rhetoric sadly. You might want to investigate the origins of faith-based initiatives to understand why I don't think Kerry will change that policy at all (hint, google for "charitable choice".

Its really a case of same ◊◊◊◊ different day.

 

[Jas]

Well, I'm not voting (obviously), however, I at least have respect for someone who is willing to stand up for their beliefs, rather than someone who is willing to change them in accordance with popular opinion. Kerry strikes me as trying too hard to please both sides, and I think he is full of BS, quite frankly. While I missed the debate last night unfortuanately, in the highlights I managed to catch a bit of the abortion talk, and I think Bush's response was much more sincere.

Just my opinion based on my limited knowledge of the subject.

 

[Checkmite]

Let's be fair, guys. Neither one of the candidates has discussed or made an issue of their faith so far, during this campaign. All the "horrible god talk" was in response to a direct question from the moderator. They answered his question, and then they moved on. Why is this such a problem?

 

[varwoche]

Re: Re: Re: Which God-boy are you voting for?

Does Kerry plan on pursuing any faith-based initiatives? Does Kerry support a constitutional admendment restricting the rights of a gay couple to marry, because God is against it? Has Kerry ever said anything that leads you to believe he would use the Oval Office to compromise the idea of separation of church and state?

Don't get me wrong, the religious posturing in which both candidates engage is sickening, but Kerry's is just that - posturing. Bush, on the other hand, is actively starting to tear down that separation. There is a significant difference in my opinion.

Everyone hates a hypocrite. But this is one case where I'll take the (assumed) hypocrite over the straight shooter any day of the week.

 

[Ed]

Well, I'm not voting (obviously), however, I at least have respect for someone who is willing to stand up for their beliefs, rather than someone who is willing to change them in accordance with popular opinion. Kerry strikes me as trying too hard to please both sides, and I think he is full of BS, quite frankly. While I missed the debate last night unfortuanately, in the highlights I managed to catch a bit of the abortion talk, and I think Bush's response was much more sincere.

Just my opinion based on my limited knowledge of the subject.

Well, you could vote in Chicago.

Seriously, I agree that Bush is sincere in his beliefs.

 

[Snide]

Let's be fair, guys. Neither one of the candidates has discussed or made an issue of their faith so far, during this campaign. All the "horrible god talk" was in response to a direct question from the moderator. They answered his question, and then they moved on. Why is this such a problem?

You see this a lot, not just from candidates. A celebrity will give an opinion, it gets published, and people go nuts. A ballplayer gives an opinion on his salary, and people rail him for it. Etc.

It's one thing to seek out the reporter and say, "Hey, print this, will you?" But people need to chill out when someone is just giving an honest answer to a question. Obviously, I'm not saying people DON'T seek out the attention, but we need keep it all in perspective.

BTW...Minnesota has elected what appears to be an agnostic/atheist.

"Organized religion is a sham for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."
-Jesse Ventura