INRM said:
Some define them as being the time from the fall of the Roman Empire (depending on what you read, is typically during the final sackings of Rome, circa 450 A.D.), to the end of the Hundred Years War. Some refer to 1492 (Columbus 'discovering' the New World), others to other events. It's all rather rough and depends on your own arguments.
The first references to Middle Ages (according to my texts) were probably in the early Enlightenment, during the late 18th century. There are a few histories commentaries that mention 'medieval' or 'middle ages' as a way of referring to a time between the golden ages of Rome and the Renaissance.
Athon
I am fairly sure the term "dark ages" has been abandoned by general scholarly consensus. It used to refer to the earlier parts of the Middle Ages, when times were particularly terrible. It's all a very dark time of human history. It just goes to show you what happens when you let belief and religion rule everything.
My memory is not as good these days but I saw a documentary on this a couple of years ago and the dark age was just that. It was dark because a volcano somewhere had erupted. The clouds from this were over the earth for about two years and the sun was not seen at all during this time. Writings about this were done by monks so there is a record. Of course at that time they wouldn't realise the darkness was caused by nature. It was about year 400 or so
max said:
I've never heard this, although it sounds unlikely. The Dark Ages, as a term, was used in reference to economical fall of the western world, and the chaos that ensued.
The word 'medieval' comes from Latin medi, for middle, and aevum, or 'age'.
Athon
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Here is a good article on the topic.
http://historymedren.about.com/library/weekly/aa072502a.htm
http://historymedren.about.com/library/weekly/aa072502a.htm
Jedi Knight
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max said:
Interesting point. One thing that did happen which might have been the result of that incident is that populations in the east moved west and began conquering.
The Roman Empire was particularly weakened at that time and the barbarian hoards descended upon it.
One of my degrees is in history and some of my professors commented that there was a significant temperature drop in the east which caused the human populations to move west. I have no opinion on the matter because it is not my specific area of study but I enjoy reading about the subject.
Something did cause massive population shifts from the east into Europe.
JK
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Alright. Who are you and what have you done with the real Jedi Knight?
I don't like using Columbus as the ending point. He was a heedless explorer who got lucky despite ignoring all evidence that the world had a diameter much greater than 5000 miles. Perhaps instead, the Great Schism of the West (1378) where the Catholic Church (the most powerful institution of the times) broke down to the point of having three Popes at once. Gutenberg's combining existing technology to build the movable type printing press might also be a good example (1436). Da Vinci was producing remarkable work by 1475; it seems strange to say that a Renaissance man lived during the Middle Ages, so I'd use 1475 as the outer limit.
H.G. Wells, who wrote a history of the world, defines the end of the Middle Ages as the start of the modern state.
Athon
I know it is difficult to absorb, it's like re writing history but the monk's writings I mentioned above were only recently discovered, and it's the first time anybody knew about the earth being plunged into darkness for two years. The writings are in the form of diaries and are pretty much detailed. After finding the diaries, the experts that be looked into the reason for the darkness and came up with the volcano theory. Imagine if this were to happen now, eventually once the sun did break through, we'd all be recalling the time as the dark years or ......."Do you remember the dark age?" etc we wouldn't be referring to bad finances and taxes raised. In about 1980 or there abouts, I remember a volcano erupting in America and the dust clouds from that hung over the British Isles for about two months. I remember I went on holiday to the island of Jersey (south England) and it was thick cloud and very cold for the whole two weeks. On top of which I didn't even get to see the sea as a mist hung over the shore.
I do wish I could give a link or a reference but I can't remember the documentary fully nor which channel aired it. When one gets to my age one can fully understand at the time but retaining the info over time is another ball game.
I know it is difficult to absorb, it's like re writing history but the monk's writings I mentioned above were only recently discovered, and it's the first time anybody knew about the earth being plunged into darkness for two years. The writings are in the form of diaries and are pretty much detailed. After finding the diaries, the experts that be looked into the reason for the darkness and came up with the volcano theory. Imagine if this were to happen now, eventually once the sun did break through, we'd all be recalling the time as the dark years or ......."Do you remember the dark age?" etc we wouldn't be referring to bad finances and taxes raised. In about 1980 or there abouts, I remember a volcano erupting in America and the dust clouds from that hung over the British Isles for about two months. I remember I went on holiday to the island of Jersey (south England) and it was thick cloud and very cold for the whole two weeks. On top of which I didn't even get to see the sea as a mist hung over the shore.
I do wish I could give a link or a reference but I can't remember the documentary fully nor which channel aired it. When one gets to my age one can fully understand at the time but retaining the info over time is another ball game.
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The catholic church is still living in the middle ages.
Skeptical Greg
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Jedi Knight said:
This is interesting, since dramatic temperature gradients usually follow a north - south orientation...
Figure the letter to the Briton from Rome in 412 where they withdrew their military protection to the invention of thhe printing press or, alternatively, the discovery of America. Foor government work, the eleven hundred period between 400-1500 works pretty well. Remember that the Renaissance expanded from Italy so that northern Europe experienced it 50 or so years later. Durers first dated print was 1514 (or so) so you might conviently date the start of the Northern R to about then.
The "Dark Ages" have been contracting over the years and I think that it basically might refer to the period where records truely suck. So from the withdrawl of the Legions in Britain (second decade of the 400's) to, let us say Alfred (in England at least) might be reasonably referred to thus.
The "Dark Ages" have been contracting over the years and I think that it basically might refer to the period where records truely suck. So from the withdrawl of the Legions in Britain (second decade of the 400's) to, let us say Alfred (in England at least) might be reasonably referred to thus.
max said:
I'm not saying the theory doesn't hold water. It's interesting, and as JK said, there must have been a few stresses to influence such large movements of populations around the same time (other than just the Huns).
I'm just skeptical about the use of the word 'dark' to imply 'dark sky' or the weather. The term is very romantic in its use, and was not used really until the 19th century when it became a reference in romantic poetry and prose. Hence the volcanic theory, while might be relative to the time, is not likely for the term.
Athon