When People Ask You...

[Legend]

When people ask you to explain experiences that they've had with "ghosts" how do you explain to them, or what do you say in response to it.

I've gotten a few of these and I try to employ critical thinking, but when people claim to have seen a clear and definitive ghostly figure standing behind a friend in the distance, it's (as you know) something you just can't explain because you don't know the exact facts.

For example, if someone told you this, what would you say in response:

I was out with a friend called Damien Evans in the forest one day. It was around 5:00 pm, the sun starting to darken the place. As we walked, I noticed an odd looking bird, the Marquis de Carabas bird; small and pleasing to the eye, famous for their constant mating patterns. I turned to Damien and told him to wait there while I went off to take a snap of the innocuous creature. During this time I felt a distinct presence, which I'm sure you'd know. As if someone was behind me. Then I heard the sticks cracking, which didn't entice me enough to look over my shoulder, I just didn't want to.

Walking back, I noticed the shocking look on Damien's face. I was reticent, to say the least, but he was almost diffident. I asked what was wrong. He spoke through the cold air.
"He was standing behind you."
"Who?" I asked, my curiosity amplified.
"Wolfman."

Wolfman was a good friend of ours.

No it's not how normal people would speak, but anyways...you catch my drift.

And I don't want Wolfman dead.

Alex.

 

[wafonso]

When people ask you to explain experiences that they've had with "ghosts" how do you explain to them, or what do you say in response to it.

I've gotten a few of these and I try to employ critical thinking, but when people claim to have seen a clear and definitive ghostly figure standing behind a friend in the distance, it's (as you know) something you just can't explain because you don't know the exact facts. [...]

That's pretty much it. You can't explain something without access to all relevant facts, and an eye-witness account certainly does not provide that. That's what I say when asked, at least.

 

[Soapy Sam]

I should say "Damien is a renowned fabulist".

 

[Aepervius]

There was some discussion and article on slashdot yesterday I think... It seems hallucination is a normal part of grief (apparently 80% of the people hallucinate in a form or another in case of grief). In my own case i saw for weeks my cat in the corner of my eye, despite very well knowing he had been euthanized.

 

[Legend]

Well in the corner of your eye is one thing, but people claiming that what they saw was clear as day, coinciding with that "presence" feeling is another.

Alex.

 

[Reno]

Woo's claims never reflect the facts of the incident.

 

[Soapy Sam]

There are three possibilities.
1. There was something there.
2.They believe there was something there.
3.They are lying about something being there.


In the case of a ghost, in my experience 2 is by far most likely- they are honestly mistaken.
If their evidence is anecdotal, that's as far as we can go.
If the same person repeatedly has such experiences, probabilities change a bit, but the same rules hold.

 

[Dancing David]

Um, as they say , "You can't argue with crazy." and I don't mean that to be disrespectful but it puts it in a nutshell. Such discussions never really go anywhere and end with hurt feelings.

The polite phrasing is "Perceptions are real , but they may or may not be valid."

There are many reasons this is so, out brains manufacture the perceptions wholesale, confirmation bias, operant superstition, confabulation, other quirks of memory and out right manipulation.

 

[Lanzy]

I don't try to pick apart a ghost story anymore than I would a mundane one. People exagerate, add details they thought of later, make things better than they actually were all the time. I just listen, if I have a similar story, I'll tell it. I don't think anyone is really attempting to convert me or anything, they are just sharing. I love stories.

 

[Legend]

Stories are fine, I'm talking about the when you start saying, "I don't believe in ghosts." And they reply with their big: "OH YEAH: WELL EXPLAIN THIS!" As if it's gospel.

The polite phrasing is "Perceptions are real , but they may or may not be valid."

This and...

People exagerate, add details they thought of later, make things better than they actually were all the time.

this and...

There are three possibilities.
1. There was something there.
2.They believe there was something there.
3.They are lying about something being there.

In the case of a ghost, in my experience 2 is by far most likely- they are honestly mistaken.
If their evidence is anecdotal, that's as far as we can go.
If the same person repeatedly has such experiences, probabilities change a bit, but the same rules hold.

this and...

Woo's claims never reflect the facts of the incident.

this I'm remembering.

Cheers.

Alex.

 

[quarky]

Glaucoma

 

[Robert Oz]

For example, if someone told you this, what would you say in response:

I was out with a friend called Damien Evans in the forest one day. It was around 5:00 pm, the sun starting to darken the place. As we walked, I noticed an odd looking bird, the Marquis de Carabas bird; small and pleasing to the eye, famous for their constant mating patterns. I turned to Damien and told him to wait there while I went off to take a snap of the innocuous creature. During this time I felt a distinct presence, which I'm sure you'd know. As if someone was behind me. Then I heard the sticks cracking, which didn't entice me enough to look over my shoulder, I just didn't want to.

Walking back, I noticed the shocking look on Damien's face. I was reticent, to say the least, but he was almost diffident. I asked what was wrong. He spoke through the cold air.
"He was standing behind you."
"Who?" I asked, my curiosity amplified.
"Wolfman."

Wolfman was a good friend of ours.

I would agree that the story is quite spooky, but our memories of events are far from perfect.

James Randi has recounted, on multiple occasions, that magic tricks he has performed have been twisted by viewers in the re-telling so much so that tricks that are easily performed literally become impossible. A subtle addition to an explanation or forgetting to mention a minor detail make the trick seem all the more magical. So does changing the order of events.

In the same way, we constantly add to, subtract from and juggle our stories as time goes by. Just as an example:

Actual event
I turned around to see Damien Evans staring over my shoulder with a terrified look on his face. I suddenly felt a chill down my spine and thought I felt a presence behind me.

Re-told event
I felt a chill down my spine and thought I felt a presence behind me. I looked up to see Damien Evans staring over my shoulder with a terrified look on his face.

In the actual event, it seems Damien may have had a hallucination brought on by the spookiness of the surroundings. Damien's reaction then spooked me enough to give me a sensation of someone or something behind me.

In the re-told event, it seems two independent experiences support each other, making it much, much harder to dismiss.

 

[TjW]

Stories are fine, I'm talking about the when you start saying, "I don't believe in ghosts." And they reply with their big: "OH YEAH: WELL EXPLAIN THIS!" As if it's gospel.

My general response to that would be: "Why?"

 

[Legend]

I would agree that the story is quite spooky, but our memories of events are far from perfect.

James Randi has recounted, on multiple occasions, that magic tricks he has performed have been twisted by viewers in the re-telling so much so that tricks that are easily performed literally become impossible. A subtle addition to an explanation or forgetting to mention a minor detail make the trick seem all the more magical. So does changing the order of events.

In the same way, we constantly add to, subtract from and juggle our stories as time goes by. Just as an example:

Actual event
I turned around to see Damien Evans staring over my shoulder with a terrified look on his face. I suddenly felt a chill down my spine and thought I felt a presence behind me.

Re-told event
I felt a chill down my spine and thought I felt a presence behind me. I looked up to see Damien Evans staring over my shoulder with a terrified look on his face.

In the actual event, it seems Damien may have had a hallucination brought on by the spookiness of the surroundings. Damien's reaction then spooked me enough to give me a sensation of someone or something behind me.

In the re-told event, it seems two independent experiences support each other, making it much, much harder to dismiss.

That's a nice way of putting it. I sent a PM a while back thanking you for an opinion you gave on a cold reading of mine. I don't know if you got it.

My general response to that would be: "Why?"

What do you mean?

Alex.

 

[Robert Oz]

That's a nice way of putting it. I sent a PM a while back thanking you for an opinion you gave on a cold reading of mine. I don't know if you got it.

I did and you're welcome.

 

[TjW]

That's a nice way of putting it. I sent a PM a while back thanking you for an opinion you gave on a cold reading of mine. I don't know if you got it.



What do you mean?

Alex.

I mean why should I explain it? It's not my story.
With someone who takes a belligerent attitude, there is no information that will change their mind, anyway.

 

[Legend]

I see.

That's an extremely correct remark as well. When they retort like that, there's no stopping them anyway. They'll scoff at anything and everything.

Alex.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Well in the corner of your eye is one thing, but people claiming that what they saw was clear as day, coinciding with that "presence" feeling is another.

Alex.

People don't have total recall (See you at the party, Vagan.) Few people are consistent when relating what they were doing when the Challenger exploded, or when JFK was shot, or when 9/11 happened when asked years apart, for example. People sometimes deliberately embelish ghost stories, or unconciously fill in details. Between that and paradolia, that's a sufficent explanation for me until solid evidence for ghosts materializes and leaves an ectoplasmic residue.

 

[Mashuna]

Personally, I just shout, "It's not true! Why do you lie to me!". Then I push them over, and run away with tears streaming down my cheeks.

It's not an approach that works for everyone, but I think you should give it a try.

 

[Froggy]

People don't have total recall (See you at the party, Vagan.) Few people are consistent when relating what they were doing when the Challenger exploded, or when JFK was shot, or when 9/11 happened when asked years apart, for example.

That's right. A good way to weed out people who are exaggerating, outright lying or merely missing certain details is to ask them to retell the ghost story several times, with lengthy periods of time between retellings. Maybe secretly record their stories with a voice recorder. When you have several recorded retellings, see if there are differences. Confront (but not confrontationally ) the story teller with the evidence, pointing out the inaccuracies. "See, three months ago you said... And a week ago you said something different". Usually the liars will get offended and say something like: "What are you, the cops? Are you calling me a liar??" Or just won't talk to you anymore. But if the story remains consistent after several retellings even in minor details, then maybe it warrants further investigation.