What specifically about math scares so many people?

[Minoosh]

Having seen people who say they are hopeless at math I want to dig deeper and find out when their fear was triggered and what might be done about it. I'm interested if anyone has had to deal with their own issue, or has had a child or loved one who is struggling. One girl told me "I was good at math till they put the alphabet in." So using letters as variables is one area of confusion. There is also a lot of new vocabulary for many students - exponents, combining like terms, the distributive property, reciprocals, coefficients etc. That might make them shut down. I have wondered if the "x" in so many problems bothers students because they are used to seeing it as a multiplication sign.

I hope this doesn't turn into a gripe session about teachers. In Shanghai, with its high math scores, teachers spend 12 hours in the classroom. Most of their time outside the classroom is spent collaborating, extensively fine-tuning lessons to make them as clear as possible. In the U.S. it's up to 30 hours in the classroom. The people on this sub-forum are probably not math-phobic, but maybe they know someone who is. Where are people's blocks and what could teachers do differently to help the lower-end students to "get it"? The level I'm talking about is freshman algebra, but students in my environment also seem to get really thrown by fractions. There is neuroscience on this issue that I'll pursue. Meanwhile, has anyone you know had specific problems, and what if anything allowed the student to break through the "I'm bad at math" barrier?

 

[Norman Alexander]

The problems I have seen with maths (it's plural, btw) is that it takes some people longer than others to "get" some of the concepts. However back in the day, it was given that all children of a certain age would assimilate such understanding at the same speed. With maths particularly, this capability with basic concepts is used to build understanding of more arcane and advanced concepts. So failure to absorb and use the first concepts led to not just classroom retribution but also a failure to progress to "advanced" maths. Both would be sources of shame and led to the idea of being "bad" at the subject.

True of all learning, but how many people here will look back at maths in school and remember saying "I was bad at maths - I just didn't get it."?

 

[marplots]

I remember clearly when I was first intimidated - even scared - by mathematics. You know that part in trigonometry where you have to smother a homeless person? I couldn't help thinking, "What if I were homeless instead of learning math? It would be my dead body in this cardboard box."

Never really got past that.

 

[macdoc]

A bit of what's the point these days with computers around.
I tested high in basic math skills but did not pursue it further after high school...zero interest despite a strong bent in science.

Had an argument with a poster/teacher who claimed we all had to be able to work out the radiative balance of the planet and that it was fine to present it as a mathematical expression.

I said that was the least likely way to get the point across and that a graphic was much preferable as a means of communicating a point.

I also think you need to distinguish between daily arithmetic skills which I think should be sound ..percentages etc, quick addition etc and solving quadratic equations, calculus etc.

We don't learn to make fire as a life skill any more.
Learning needs to be relevant and anything beyond basic maths is only relevant to specialized fields and I would strongly guess that the calculator and the computer, not the brain are the weapons of choice even in those fields. Does the astromer actually calculate what he or her needs??.....or do they turn to their computers.

For some it's fun and I recall that up to perhaps algebra the skills came easily and after that brain said "pointless" and this was just as calculators were emerging ( it was illegal to take a calculator into China as late as the early 80s ).

I admire Einstein and Hawking and others working the math to support their thought experiments but the visuals in my view are far more important.

NASA knows

In my view ...it's concepts that students need...not necessarily the method of getting there.....machines are extensions of our skill sets and I don't need to clutter a limited brain with skills a machine can undertake.
What is the point of teaching kids programming unless they are going into the field. By all means make a course available for those interested....but forcefeeding irrelevancy turns kids off learning right quick

 

[fuelair]

Sock-it -to-me or something similar: http://www.mathwords.com/s/sohcahtoa.htm

 

[Ziggurat]

I remember clearly when I was first intimidated - even scared - by mathematics. You know that part in trigonometry where you have to smother a homeless person? I couldn't help thinking, "What if I were homeless instead of learning math? It would be my dead body in this cardboard box."

Never really got past that.

That's because you had a bad math teacher. A good math teacher can make smothering the homeless fun! Of course, some of us had a knack for it even without instruction.

 

[Perpetual Student]

Why do people look for blame when some people do not do well with mathematics? Do we look for blame when we do not have the ability to run fast or learn to play the violin well?

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

What specifically about math scares so many people?

Language Nazis.

The problems I have seen with maths (it's plural, btw) ...

 

[Meadmaker]

We don't learn to make fire as a life skill any more.
Learning needs to be relevant and anything beyond basic maths is only relevant to specialized fields and I would strongly guess that the calculator and the computer, not the brain are the weapons of choice even in those fields.

AAAAAARRRRGGGHHHHH!

Ok. I suppose it's true. Most people don't really use math in their day to day lives, so I guess it would be a specialized skill only relevant to certain fields, but this item, and the post from which it came, are just the kind of thing that drives people who do understand math crazy.

Calculators don't do math (or even maths, in Britain). They do arithmetic. They might even do very advanced arithmetic. But no, in those highly specialized fields, you need to understand math. Your calculator can't do the work for you. If you don't know math, you won't know what buttons to press. If you don't know math, you won't be able to use that computer. The real value in most of those scientific papers is not the number that comes out at the end of the calculation, nor in the concepts that inform the idea. The real value is in the ability to express precise relationships between various real world, frequently but not always physical, quantities. That's math. Once you know those relationships, spitting out the numbers is arithmetic.

ETA: As for the OP itself, I'm afraid I'm worse than useless for the question. I was always pretty good at math, and any teaching I ever did was to engineering students, who were also pretty good at math.

Related to my rant above, one possible block is that people seem to think that math and arithmetic are the same thing. They really aren't, and I suspect that some people never make the transition between the two subjects, in part because the teachers don't know how to shift the gears to the newer concepts.

 

[marplots]

That's because you had a bad math teacher. A good math teacher can make smothering the homeless fun! Of course, some of us had a knack for it even without instruction.

Yeah, I went to a public school, the cheapest of cheap educations. Thankfully, one doesn't need any maths at all to live a good and useful life.

Math - it's all just made up anyhow.

 

[macdoc]

Related to my rant above, one possible block is that people seem to think that math and arithmetic are the same thing.

I clearly distinguished between basic arithmetic and math. The former should be learned/taught for basic life skills - that said ....Even basic division etc is easy left to the smart phones that all carry.- The latter is not necessary unless your field requires it or you like to do it in which case courses should be available but not required.

No question those that need it....say an engineer needs to understand the math to set up the problem to be solved but it's unlikely they will solve it by hand

Technology supercedes certain skill sets...how the Blackbird was designed and built using only sliderules is astonishing given the fundamental breakthroughs required...yet slide rules and the skill to use it are superceded.

It's not taught in schools nor should it be. Not relevant.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

One of the reasons might be how it is taught.

I love maths, and always have. To me it is clear, elegant, simple and free of all those messy distractions. And once you have it solved you can apply it to anything you want. And it works.
And math books (at least all the ones I've seen for high schools) are written by people like me, for people like me.
I've only learned how people whose brains are wired differently feel about maths when I had to take college level courses in quantum mechanics and the professor wrote a full blackboard equation series and then said: "see, that's how it works, real easy" and I realized I had NO clue what he ment. And when people asked for clarification he wrote the same formula again with the same explanation.
Yes, I eventually managed to figure it out on my own, but by then I was in my twenties.

But there are a LOT of people to whom mathematics without connection to something they can visualize are at the level of confusion I was then, but those are 11 or 12 when they reach it. Some people simply cannot 'see' that y=2x+3 is the same as y-3=2x
To them maths is a meaningless set of incomprehensible rules that needs to be memorized and has no logic. Some numbers can only be moved by additions, some by substractions, some by dividing etc. And these people generally get called variations of stupid or slow. So when they see others solving the problems simply and then their only help tends to be a repeat of what they already do not understand they start fearing maths.
And that is not even counting those with actual dyscalculia to whom even 2+3 and 3+2 are radically different equations.

The first set can be taught maths, but it needs a quite different approach, with a lot more direct connection to real world problems they can visualize and often various ways of explaining problems until you find the way that connects with them.
The second set will generally never be all that good at maths, in the same way a dyslectic will generally never be an avid reader, but by actually acknowledging their problem and gearing explanations to them they too can be at least made to not fear maths.

But that requires at least 2 different books an a lot of individual attention to help pupils.
And society tends not to want to spend that much on education.

 

[Minoosh]

Why do people look for blame when some people do not do well with mathematics? Do we look for blame when we do not have the ability to run fast or learn to play the violin well?

Because the students are going to have their math knowledge/ability measured as part of their education. Not so much running or playing the violin. I hope it's not just "looking for blame," but for ways to present/engage/encourage students to at least try.

 

[Minoosh]

Sock-it -to-me or something similar: http://www.mathwords.com/s/sohcahtoa.htm

Soh Cah Toa me! I never "got" trig except through the unit circle. Once I had the circle the triangles made sense. It was gorgeous. The right triangle approach was all I got in high school, and it made no sense to me. Light dawned a full 35 years later.

But that requires at least 2 different books an a lot of individual attention to help pupils.
And society tends not to want to spend that much on education.

Awesome response. Thank you.

Maybe it would be OK if students using decimal approximations for everything, but I'd still want them to know that those are related to fractions.
Adult brain processes fractions "effortlessly"

“Fractions are often considered a major stumbling block in math education,” said Daniel Ansari, PhD, at the University of Western Ontario in Canada, an expert on numerical cognition in children and adults who was not affiliated with the study. “This new study challenges the notion that children must undergo a qualitative shift in order to understand fractions and use them in calculations. The findings instead suggest that fractions are built upon the system that is employed to represent basic numerical magnitude in the brain,” Ansari said.

That is assuming normal brains, but some people have processing difficulties. I've tried having students divide 1/2, 2/4, 3/6 etc. on a calculator to show they are all the same number, which is fine, but some have difficulty with 1/2 = .50 = "50 percent off!" Though they generally know 50 percent is half.

 

[malbec]

Isn't it accepted that that the ability to successfully deal with math concepts and applications is just one factor among several that in total represent one dimension of a person's IQ ? If you choose to live in a world where logical principles are valued , a high ' maths" score will obviously be useful But there are many other equally valid and useful life perspectives that rest upon other IQ components .

 

[ceptimus]

Math(s) is hard! People are scared of difficult things.

Mathematical questions (usually) have a right and a wrong answer - so unlike some other subjects (economics ) you can't just argue that it's all a matter of nuanced opinion and that your answer wasn't actually wrong, merely 'differently correct'.

 

[Tony99]

I'm an admitted math phobic (mathophobe?)
Pretty sure its down to how my brain works. Algebra/calculus send me into a panic. I struggled with algebra my entire education; failed the classes multiple times then just barely passing to be moved on.

Once passing algebra/calc (through downright cheating and teachers sick of seeing me) I was able to move on to the wonderful world of geometry and trig.

Still a bit bitter that I was not able to take those classes before passing the evil confusing algebra...why are you mixing my alphabet with numbers?

I passed all my geometry/trig classes fairly easily, fully grasping the formulas and concepts and was very easy to visualize what I needed to do. For the first time I didn't struggle in maths.

Most people I've informally polled over the years fall into these two camps. Algebra people and geometry people.

 

[Bikewer]

If the "multiple intelligences" idea has any merit, then some people (including myself) are simply deficient in that particular area.
Even as a kid, taking all of those "basic skills" tests, I scored in the upper percentiles on all aspects...Except math.
I even had trouble with fractions in elementary school... All that common-denominator stuff and "inverting" things.
When I got to high school and Algebra 1... Well, that was utter Greek. I still couldn't tell you what a "set" was. And when the teacher said "quadratic equation"...It was like a wall went up in my mind.

Now, I liked plane geometry, since that involved drawing skills which I'm very good at. But when we got to the more mathematical side I lost it utterly.

A couple of NPR discussions on the subject I listened to both discussed the necessity of spending more time with students like myself, and possibly tutoring. I kept getting, "Oh, you're smart, you'll get it."

Not so.

 

[casebro]

If the "multiple intelligences" idea has any merit, then some people (including myself) are simply deficient in that particular area.
Even as a kid, taking all of those "basic skills" tests, I scored in the upper percentiles on all aspects...Except math.
I even had trouble with fractions in elementary school... All that common-denominator stuff and "inverting" things.
When I got to high school and Algebra 1... Well, that was utter Greek. I still couldn't tell you what a "set" was. And when the teacher said "quadratic equation"...It was like a wall went up in my mind.

Now, I liked plane geometry, since that involved drawing skills which I'm very good at. But when we got to the more mathematical side I lost it utterly.

A couple of NPR discussions on the subject I listened to both discussed the necessity of spending more time with students like myself, and possibly tutoring. I kept getting, "Oh, you're smart, you'll get it."

Not so.

Simple. You think in images. They teach in words- or numbers.

Not so much "different intelligences", but different ways of thinking. For me, Geometry was a breeze, trig was undecipherable- until a shop teacher showed a practical use. Images of right angles got through.

Half of us think primarily in images, with some back up in other methods. Some think in words, they make good lawyers. Others in concepts. I think in images, but grasp concepts well- I aced high school chemistry, flunked German because if the rote memorization of the grammar. But I could read it just fine. And I just can't visualize calculus. "Gifted" IQ, but a mechanic and sculptor, not a Professor.

We need to make math teachers out of the bad math students rather then the good math students. eta: Like Kotter and his Sweat Hogs.

eta a bunch more: Google <think in pictures or words test> The test I found surprised me- it said 'concepts'.

What had twigged me to the concept of different ways of thinking was my BIL- a Lord High Muckety Muck in the computer world, asking me how I think. He thinks in words, had wondered about his wife, who, like me, can't learn music. Topic of conversation shifted to shooting trap. He started to ask about it- then stopped and asked how I was thinking about a trap field. I had already formed an image, waiting for where to place myself and the target. Don't recall if we ever got to talking trap, or if the question was a set up- wiley guy that BIL.

You won't be able to look into it without bumping into Temple Grandin, and 'TED". She is a PhD with autism.

All of which might go a long way to explaining why some of us don't do maths.

 

[jaydeehess]

Simplest form.
Note 1=1 is true, 2=2 is true, 3=3 is true
One could continue on and on or simply say that for any number represented by x that x=x is true. That is really all there is to substituting letters as variables.

if x=y then for any value we assign to x, y will have the same value.

if x=y+1 then for any value we assign to x, y will be that value plus 1

if x=y² then for any value we assign to x, y will have the value of the square of that number
Note in the above though that there is a trick in this. Say we assign a value of 2 to x. Obviously y=2X2=4. Fine and dandy. What if we assign the value of -2 to x?
well now y=(-2)X(-2)=4. So if x is either 2 or -2 then y=4

y=2x+3 is a line on a 2d Cartesian graph. For any known value of either of the two variables, you can calculate the value of the other variable. Pick one of the variables, say x, and sub numbers for it then do the arithmetic to find the corresponding value of y.
ie. for x=0 y=2(0)+3 =0+3=3 So one point on that line is x=0, y=3
next x=1
so y=2(1)+3 = 2+3=5
another point on the line is x=1, y=5

go the other direction and set x=-1
y=2(-1)+3=-2+3=1
So another point on the line is
x=-1, y=1

plot them on a graph and draw a line through them.

Once you have that down you can move on to other more complex things.
for instance the caclulation of how far an object travels is
d=d_i+v_it+0.5at²
where d is the distance traveled
d_i is the initial (thus the little "i" below) distance from the recognized starting point. Often it is simply the location the object is at the start of timing therefore d_i=0
v_i is the initial velocity the object had when timing began, again it may be zero, negative or positive.
a is the object's acceleration
t is the elapsed time

A little algebra will let us discover the value of any of the variables if we can measure the others.