What "powers" do the "euroskeptics" want back?

Darat

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Darat
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I'm getting a tad fed-up of the many euroskeptics popping up all over the media saying they "want the power* back" and then being vague about what that means. So far all I've heard is some mumbling about bent bananas and the working time directive (which we can already opt out of...) oh and one mention of "human rights"!

Anyone got a list handy of what powers we are meant to want to have back?


(*Sadly I've been informed it is not the power of flight or invisibility.)
 
I think it is pretty much all the Social Chapter that Blair signed up to in 97:

"In the 10 years following the 1997 Treaty of Amsterdam and adoption of the Social Chapter the European Union has undertaken policy initiatives in various social policy areas, including labour and industry relations, equal opportunity, health and safety, public health, protection of children, the disabled and elderly, poverty, migrant workers, education, training and youth. "

Plus the European Arrest Warrant and repealing the Human Rights Act which enacted the European Convention on Human Rights as well as withdrawing from the Convention.

Depending on how rabid you are of course, the mildly drooling wing may only advocate some of the above.
 
Well the Human rights act is rather a strange one since it is not really an EU thing and pre-dates our even joining the common market by a couple of decades so that wouldn't fall under the "powers back from the EU" would it? (Plus of course that the Human rights act makes it very clear that parliament still makes the final calls.)
 
Darat said:
Well the Human rights act is rather a strange one since it is not really an EU thing and pre-dates our even joining the common market by a couple of decades so that wouldn't fall under the "powers back from the EU" would it? (Plus of course that the Human rights act makes it very clear that parliament still makes the final calls.)
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You appear to be making the assumption that what they want is constructed on a logical basis, rather than what will play well on the front page of the Daily Heil - so you can probably add immigrants and anything that lowers house prices / causes cancer (ie everything) to the list.
 
Jaggy Bunnet said:
You appear to be making the assumption that what they want is constructed on a logical basis, rather than what will play well on the front page of the Daily Heil - so you can probably add immigrants and anything that lowers house prices / causes cancer (ie everything) to the list.
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Ah I see what you mean! :)
 
Darat said:
I'm getting a tad fed-up of the many euroskeptics popping up all over the media saying they "want the power* back" and then being vague about what that means. So far all I've heard is some mumbling about bent bananas and the working time directive (which we can already opt out of...) oh and one mention of "human rights"!

Anyone got a list handy of what powers we are meant to want to have back?


(*Sadly I've been informed it is not the power of flight or invisibility.)
Click to expand...

Did the UK cede to the EU any powers previously held by the UK government?
 
I am not a Eurosceptic but as I understand it the objections include:

  • The fact that the UK is a net contributor to European coffers
  • The whole univeral human rights thing - prevents us punishing criminals properly, what !
  • The restrictions on business introduced over the last 'n' years insisting that workers have rights and that health and safety rules should apply
  • Restrictions on farming, insisting on minimum animal welfare standards
  • Insisting that the EU is opened up to competition (ideally we would like their markets open to us but not vice versa)
  • Free movement of people, we should be able to retire to the Algarve or work in Frankfurt but those dagoes and krauts shouldn't be allowed to work here
  • The whole European parliament and bureaucracy

I think what the Eurosceptics would like are all the benefits of being members of the EU but with none of the responsibilities.
 
The Don said:
  • The restrictions on business introduced over the last 'n' years insisting that workers have rights and that health and safety rules should apply
  • Restrictions on farming, insisting on minimum animal welfare standards

I think what the Eurosceptics would like are all the benefits of being members of the EU but with none of the responsibilities.
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The sentiment expressed normally revolves around the notion that we apply these rules and directives to the letter, while jonnie foreigner just shrugs them off.

I once had a medium sized building contractor moaning about new regulations regarding health & Safety on construction sites (specifically regarding scaffolding) and how when you go on holiday to Spain you don't see the same levels of compliance. I asked him if he competed much with Spanish construction firms. He looked blank.

Similarly, a few months ago on the BBC R4 farming programme, there was much talk about how UK poultry farmers were rushing to upgrade their facilities to comply with new regulations but that farmers in France couldn't give a toss. How much truth there was in this (it was asserted by a farmer, not by a journalist) I don't know.

ETA:
The UK egg industry says it feels "totally let down" by ministers after they failed to ban imports of illegally produced eggs from Europe.

An EU-wide ban on battery hens comes into force in January, but 13 out of 27 nations say they will not comply.

The government says it has taken steps to protect UK farmers from being undercut - by gaining agreement from supermarkets not to use illegal eggs.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16047967
 
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uk_dave said:
I once had a medium sized building contractor moaning about new regulations regarding health & Safety on construction sites (specifically regarding scaffolding) and how when you go on holiday to Spain you don't see the same levels of compliance. I asked him if he competed much with Spanish construction firms. He looked blank.
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A programme (Today or PM I think) I listened to yesterday had a slater/tiler on it who said that if he (or his client) wasn't required to put it up, he'd have died at least once from falling off a roof. OTOH, I also knew of someone whose safety equipment for roofing was a half-bottle of vodka.
 
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Gawwwd! Bleedin' 'eck, that Europe!

I can't believe we spent the last 1000 years since William the Conqueror defending our islands from Johnny Foreigners who wanted to invade like Napoleon and Hitler whose idea the European Union was and we go and join it and fall straight into their trap and we let them build a tunnel so they can invade and you can't do nuffink without the European magistrates telling you that you all these rules and regulations in metric and they say that carrot's are a fruit cos they make jam out of it or sumfink. We should have voted for Enoch Powell he would have kept those foreigners out I mean just think of the cricket test, how many of them cheer for England and how many of them cheer for...er...the West Indies and anyway, look at how they're making a president of Europe we've actually got THREE and one of them is Poland! Bleedin' 'eck! That Europe...

Good job we didn't join the Euro!
 
sarge said:
Did the UK cede to the EU any powers previously held by the UK government?
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Kind of.

The basic idea is that the EU creates a base level that all EU countries must follow, so they set basic safety standards, basic health codes, basic levels of human rights etc.

For the most part, the UK was ahead of the EU base levels when it joined, and as such didn't actually have to change very much at all. In fact with the laws regarding product safety the UK actually helped set the regulatory levels, if my memory serves. That still doesn't stop the Daily Wail from screaming about Brussels Bureaucrats imposing laws on the UK, and technically they aren't lying so long as they phrase the hysteria carefully enough.

Of course, that doesn't stop their ilk from outright lying other times.
 
The claim that the human rights act is separate is somewhat disingenuous at this point since it is a requirement for membership. The right to a family life appears to be rather badly thought out but on the other hand the freedom of speech stuff needs beefing up.

The problem with listing what the EU should stop doing is that its quite hard to work out what they are up to so unless you pay particular attention to an area they are active in you are unlikely to find out.

For example consider copyright. Already handled well enough on an international level and so far the EU's involvement has only resulted in longer terms. The addition of database rights hasn't helped anyone and the Resale right is fundimental unbritish.

The EU also has a questionable Health and safety record. For example they lowered the standards on what could be called a lifejacket.
 
commandlinegamer said:
A programme (Today or PM I think) I listened to yesterday had a slater/tiler on it who said that if he (or his client) wasn't required to put it up, he'd have died at least once from falling off a roof. OTOH, I also knew of someone whose safety equipment for roofing was a half-bottle of vodka.
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It's interesting to go and see what the figures say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construction_site_safety

Country/Region| Fatalities (per Annum per 100,000 Workers)
EU| 13.3
France| 12.1
Germany|15.4
Ireland| 8.0
Italy| 14.4
United Kingdom| 3.4
United States of America|10.8
 
geni said:
The claim that the human rights act is separate is somewhat disingenuous at this point since it is a requirement for membership.

...snip...
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Not really from the point I was making, so we could leave the EU but still have the same legislation in regards to human rights, and those rights have been set "by Europe" since the 50s.
 
uk_dave said:
That appears to be terribly inefficient on the part of Germany. Unless it's all part of a master plan........... :boxedin:
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I've seen German construction workers ply their trade. Per actual productive hour they probably have the same accident rate as their British counterparts when tea and fag breaks are taken into account


Edited to add the bit in bold
 
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The Don said:
I am not a Eurosceptic but as I understand it the objections include:

  • The fact that the UK is a net contributor to European coffers
  • The whole univeral human rights thing - prevents us punishing criminals properly, what !
  • The restrictions on business introduced over the last 'n' years insisting that workers have rights and that health and safety rules should apply
  • Restrictions on farming, insisting on minimum animal welfare standards
  • Insisting that the EU is opened up to competition (ideally we would like their markets open to us but not vice versa)
  • Free movement of people, we should be able to retire to the Algarve or work in Frankfurt but those dagoes and krauts shouldn't be allowed to work here
  • The whole European parliament and bureaucracy

I think what the Eurosceptics would like are all the benefits of being members of the EU but with none of the responsibilities.
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Sounds a lot like the States Rights crowd here in the US. However, the EU being a confederation, where sovereignty is still maintained by the participating states, the argument is a little stronger.
 
cwalner said:
Sounds a lot like the States Rights crowd here in the US. However, the EU being a confederation, where sovereignty is still maintained by the participating states, the argument is a little stronger.
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As pointed out above, the UK quite often already exceeded the EU mandated standards and in some cases was used to define them. Seeking to repeal would take us back to pre-1973 levels of human, employment and animal rights legislation.

I can't help but feel that there is a small portion of UK society who won't be happy until we're back to Victorian conditions of a huge exploitable underclass.
 
The Don said:
...snip...

I can't help but feel that there is a small portion of UK society who won't be happy until we're back to Victorian conditions of a huge exploitable underclass.
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It is hard to not come to that conclusion given what the whining seems to often centre on. For example "working hour directive" - I mean it is just not on that we are no longer "allowed" to force people engaged in non-critical work, such as say junior Drs, work 20 hours a day for a fortnight!
 
Darat said:
It's interesting to go and see what the figures say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construction_site_safety

Country/Region| Fatalities (per Annum per 100,000 Workers)
EU| 13.3
France| 12.1
Germany|15.4
Ireland| 8.0
Italy| 14.4
United Kingdom| 3.4
United States of America|10.8
Click to expand...

In other words we shouldn't allow the EU to have anything to do with our health and safety standards.
 
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