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What is this mysterious Immune System?

Suezoled

Illuminator
S
Joined
Sep 20, 2003
Messages
4,477
The homeopaths strengthen it. The Chiropractors allow it to work more efficiently by straightening out subluxations. The anti vaccination crew would prevent immunizations from destroying it. According to Rouser2, mammograms, chemotherapy, radiation, and latex gloves make boobs grow cancer and corrupt the immune system. What is this mysterious immune system, that these "alternative medicine" people support, aid, stregthen, or do the work of?

Hm....
http://science.howstuffworks.com/immune-system.htm

Immune system 101:

It works around the clock. It helps fight bacteria, viruses, and foreign bodies that invade the body. This covers everything from cuts in the skin to colds that are spread by mucous membrane contact. If a virus invades the body and the immune system has no familiarity with the invader, it will build up antibodies. Sometimes thing like antibiotics can be used to help prevent secondary infection. Somtimes things like vaccinations are used so that the body can make antibodies before the person gets really sick.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/immune-system3.htm
basic parts of the immune system:
Thymus
Spleen
Lymph system
Bone marrow
White blood cells
Antibodies
Complement system
Hormones

Sometimes, your immune system does wacky things. This includes stuff like attacking your own cells, histamine responses, and cooties. Retroviruses take advantage of the immune system.

Okay, so with all these concepts made simple.... how do "alternative medicine" people or the Rouser2's of the world fit the "immune system" (stregthening or weakening) into their philosophy?
 
Hey, I have written something on the immune system (really for a younger group, but hey)

http://www.members.shaw.ca/eostory/AShot.html

Yeah, I know, shameless plug, but it's Immune System 101 as well.

I would love to know exactly how the sCAM folks "strenghthen" the immune system. It's not a muscle :p

So, do they promote white cell health or something?

Actually, I keep hearing that the immune system is this magical energy thingy. The sCAM crowd goes on about how to make energy run freely in order to have health. Vitality...a buzz word as well.

Tell them to name 3 types of white blood cells. Watch for that blank look of "there's types of white blood cells?"
 
True, quite true.

But on the other hand, if it begins to malfunction, there's pretty much no way to fix it. Sometimes it can be repressed (at significant cost to health) or partially destroyed and recreated, but not easily.
 
Suezoled said:
Okay, so with all these concepts made simple.... how do "alternative medicine" people or the Rouser2's of the world fit the "immune system" (stregthening or weakening) into their philosophy?
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They don't. It's all just words.

We have to remember that for the homoeopaths, chiropractors, naturopaths, anti-vax weirdos and so on, it's all about a fiction that they have learned and bought into. And like most fictions, it doesn't necessarily all hang together internally, and it's a lot simpler than reality.

We waste hours trying to demonstrate to them the real-life facts which show that their world-view is unreal, but they don't really care. They're not concerned with reality, only with the simple little story that they've learned and elaborated on. They focus on that, and just screen the real world out.

Rolfe.
 
The macrophage is my favorite immune system cell. What they don't eat, they spray with toxins. I guess you can say the remind me of me.:D
 
Re: Re: What is this mysterious Immune System?

Rolfe said:
They don't. It's all just words.

We have to remember that for the homoeopaths, chiropractors, naturopaths, anti-vax weirdos and so on, it's all about a fiction that they have learned and bought into. And like most fictions, it doesn't necessarily all hang together internally, and it's a lot simpler than reality.

We waste hours trying to demonstrate to them the real-life facts which show that their world-view is unreal, but they don't really care. They're not concerned with reality, only with the simple little story that they've learned and elaborated on. They focus on that, and just screen the real world out.

Rolfe.
Click to expand...

But what do they say? If you corner them, how do they describe the immune system? What is the story? What is it to them? Or do they mix a little truth to make the lie stronger?
 
Generally they don't understand any of it. Rather like the people who constantly use the term 'energy' in a non-Physics sense. Most of the time they can't even explain what they mean, although sometimes you come across a person who understands it's a metaphor.
 
Re: Re: Re: What is this mysterious Immune System?

Suezoled said:
But what do they say? If you corner them, how do they describe the immune system?
Click to expand...
They don't. They can't. They have no idea at all about the subject.

If you try to corner them, they tell you that they don't think the way science thinks, but their way of thinking is the more valid - then they call you closed-minded - then they call you a troll - then they swear at you - then they ban you.

Simple, really.

Rolfe.
 
Oh dear. Poor Rolfe. There there. There there. I like you anyway. Even if you are a rotten Medical Person who tries to steal the money of poor widows by recommending unnecessary drugs that are probably poisoning the patient in the end.
 
Wrath of the Swarm said:
True, quite true.

But on the other hand, if it begins to malfunction, there's pretty much no way to fix it. Sometimes it can be repressed (at significant cost to health) or partially destroyed and recreated, but not easily.
Click to expand...

They can try, its not easy, but, basically they wipe out your bone marrow , then inject bone marrow or stem cells from a healthy person ( tissue matched). Hey presto, new immune system. Obviously this is just a part of the immune system, but its a big part.

(very simplified btw :D )
 
No, it doesn't. It just teaches the immune system what to look out for. The immune response itself is not made more potent by exposure.
 
BobM said:
Well, exposure to pathogens strengthens the immune system..
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hm.. maybe if you inject pathogens with uranium! The radiation will surely stregthen the system through weird mutations by changing the very DNA structure of your body into something inhuman but insanely powerful! You will be invincible and never catch a cold again.

I so want to be a science fiction writer sometimes.
 
Wrath of the Swarm said:
No, it doesn't. It just teaches the immune system what to look out for. The immune response itself is not made more potent by exposure.
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Mmmmm, there's some new thinking about the immune system needing to be educated. 90% or even 99% of what it does is recognising the innocuous and failing to react. Then it needs to identify the real enemies and go after them, but that's only a small part of what it's exposed to.

One theory about the increase in asthma and auto-immune disease is that life is so sanitary that we're not seeing the sort of general stuff the immune system evolved to expect in its early years, and so its discrimination may be out by a hair or two.

If this is correct, and can be better understood, it may in future be possible to produce improved vaccines which address this point, and mimic the natural (but dangerous) crawling around in all the muck there is.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
Mmmmm, there's some new thinking about the immune system needing to be educated. (snipped)
Rolfe.
Click to expand...

Is "education" of the immune system the same as " stregthening"? Are we talking about the same thing/method/goal woo's are?
 
Re: Re: Re: What is this mysterious Immune System?

Suezoled said:


But what do they say? If you corner them, how do they describe the immune system? What is the story? What is it to them? Or do they mix a little truth to make the lie stronger?
Click to expand...

:D I told you, it's this enegy thinga that must flow freely in the body. You have to have a straight back bone for this to happen, and only chiropractors can make sure all is perfect. Afterall, the backbone is the main pathway. The immune system, unencumbered and fixed by the chiros and CAMs, can even restore eyesight! It's very amazing, and the allopaths just don't get it. They are so brainwashed and blind that they just don't get it! Get it? You must, you're very smart and all. Come with me, and I'll test your energy flow. It only costs $150.00. I'll give you this free book on your immune system as well. Don't miss the section on toxins and vaccines!

(honestly, this is what a lot of them say)
 
Get it? You must, you're very smart and all. Come with me, and I'll test your energy flow. It only costs $150.00.
Click to expand...

once they start complimenting your intelligence, you know they think you're stupid.
 
Suezoled said:
Is "education" of the immune system the same as " stregthening"? Are we talking about the same thing/method/goal woo's are?
Click to expand...
No, absolutely not. It's just that if this model is correct, and it's looking good, then exposure to antigens does in a manner of speaking make the immune system function better.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what the woos are on about, though.

Rolfe.
 
Suezoled said:
Oh dear. Poor Rolfe. There there. There there. I like you anyway. ....
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Well, it was Prester John it happened to, not me, I wouldn't want to misappropriate his sympathy.... :D

Rolfe.
 
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