What is a social conservative?

[Upchurch]

I tend to think of social conservatism as being somewhat synonymous with religious right views like anti-choice and anti-gay marriage. First, is that correct? Second, I can't believe that this is the sum total of a political category.

What are the principles of social conservatism?

 

[JihadJane]

Fear

 

[Tailgater]

I tend to think of social conservatism as being somewhat synonymous with religious right views like anti-choice and anti-gay marriage. First, is that correct? Second, I can't believe that this is the sum total of a political category.

What are the principles of social conservatism?

Pretty much. Add dirty things like porn and bad words.

I would say there is a large slice of social conservatism in the minority sections of the left also, depending on if by right/left you mean rep/dem. Prop 8 was evidence of that or the PMRC from the 80s. Its just a Christian thang.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I tend to think of social conservatism as being somewhat synonymous with religious right views like anti-choice and anti-gay marriage. First, is that correct? Second, I can't believe that this is the sum total of a political category.

What are the principles of social conservatism?

Similar to the principles of social drinking -- somewhat self defined.

DR

 

[Tricky]

In addition to what you mention:

• Pretty much against anything to do with sex apart from monogamous heterosexual intercourse in the missionary position.

• Against anything "new", especially styles, like tattoos and piercings.

• Wish to see old barriers stay in place. In the past, this meant "no mixing of the races" (and still does for some). Some would even prefer a return to sex-separate schools. But for most today, it is more like "no illegal immigrants" and "no foreigners running businesses in America."

• Strongly in favor of the right to "raise your children as you see fit", which may include lots of corporal punishment or other things that today we would call "abuse". (Have you seen the story of the Serial Raping Dad?) Also includes the right to religiously indoctrinate your children using any techniques whatsoever.

• Very against drugs. Somewhat against youthful fun of any kind, especially modern music. "Obscene lyrics" are unforgivable.

• Want harsh penalties for lawbreakers. Usually they are death penalty advocates unless countermanded by some religious principle. Not necessarily sold on the "innocent until proven guilty" thing.

• Usually fiscally conservative, except when it comes to armies and weapons.

• Somewhat isolationist unless attacked by a foreign entity.

In short, social conservatives fall pretty much under the broad definition offered by Ambrose Bierce:

"CONSERVATIVE, n.
A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others. "

 

[Tailgater]

Ya, I forgot drugs. Some of your list strays outside "social" conservatism.

Find an ad from the 50's with the stay at home wife by the new stove and the two perfect white kids smiling and playing jacks on the floor and there is the ideal of a social conservative.

Mom: "Now kids, clean those jacks up before your father comes home and gets his belt"

Kids: "yes mommy, god would be mad if we made father cross"

Ah, the good old days before those damn hippies came around.

 

[Darth Rotor]

[*]Pretty much against anything to do with sex apart from monogamous heterosexual intercourse in the missionary position.

You are very out of date on that last pair of words, insofar as social conservatives. The year is 2008, not 1969. Big on no sex until married, however. (At least for everyone else, eh?)

Against anything "new", especially styles, like tattoos and piercings.

Sort of, but if you are referring to a social conservative, you might be better off describing the mind set as being against people who demand that attention to be paid to themselves (for whatever reason) in overt and publicly visible ways. Social conservatives are uncomfortable with the outlier. (Hell, anything beyond two sigmas from "the norm" makes a social conservative twitch. )

Wish to see old barriers stay in place. In the past, this meant "no mixing of the races" (and still does for some). Some would even prefer a return to sex-separate schools. But for most today, it is more like "no illegal immigrants" and "no foreigners running businesses in America."

You've mixed old and new here, but yeah, rapid rate of change and Future Shock disturbs a social conservative.

Strongly in favor of the right to "raise your children as you see fit", which may include lots of corporal punishment

Yes, and they want teachers to be able to paddle the trouble maker kids in school: which must all be someone else's kid.

or other things that today we would call "abuse".

Social conservatives do not condone pedophilia, incest, nor rape. You are crossing a line here into farce.

Also includes the right to religiously indoctrinate your children using any techniques whatsoever.

Your last words are caricature, the rest spot on.

Very against drugs.

Yes, but let's be clear about this: the social conservative tends to be against recreational drugs. This Puritanical strain has sustained into the modern day in various ways. The verdict is out on drinks and smokes. Some are against booze and cigarettes, which allies them with progressives of the more liberal sort. I find that funny.

Somewhat against youthful fun of any kind, especially modern music. "Obscene lyrics" are unforgivable.

Define modern music. You talking about them Negro Blues, Emo, Shanaya Twain's lap Dancing genre, Death Metal, or what?

Want harsh penalties for lawbreakers. Usually they are death penalty advocates unless countermanded by some religious principle. Not necessarily sold on the "innocent until proven guilty" thing.

Tricky, your description is going into farce here. I am not familiar with social conservatives, in America, who are not interested in a fair trial. (What many social conservatives are not keen on in evidence being excluded by those tricksy Philadelphia Lawyers.) Once a fair trial, then hang 'em -- that seems to be the framework.

[*]Usually fiscally conservative, except when it comes to armies and weapons.

Mixed bag there. There are two camps: the social conservatives who are also isolationists, and the social conservatives who are "kill the commies or enemies of democracy" motivated. You are mixing something beyond social into social here, falling into the whole fiscal conservative descriptive.

[*]Somewhat isolationist unless attacked by a foreign entity.

Again, mixed bag, and mixing into something outside the general, albeit nebulous, term.

In short, social conservatives fall pretty much under the broad definition offered by Ambrose Bierce:

Yeah.

DR

 

[Sefarst]

Against anything "new", especially styles, like tattoos and piercings.

As someone who lives in Georgia and spent his youth hanging out with social conservatives and their families, I think this one is wrong. They tend to be okay with piercings and moderately okay with tattoos (it depends on the content of the tattoos).

Wish to see old barriers stay in place. In the past, this meant "no mixing of the races" (and still does for some). Some would even prefer a return to sex-separate schools. But for most today, it is more like "no illegal immigrants" and "no foreigners running businesses in America."

This is somewhat accurate, though I would disagree with the "no foreigners running businesses in America" bit. I can't recall anyone complaining about who owns the businesses they patron.

Strongly in favor of the right to "raise your children as you see fit", which may include lots of corporal punishment or other things that today we would call "abuse". (Have you seen the story of the Serial Raping Dad?) Also includes the right to religiously indoctrinate your children using any techniques whatsoever.

Please, this one is ridiculous. They believe in the right to raise your children with your values and morals and their idea of corporal punishment is an occasional spanking.

Very against drugs. Somewhat against youthful fun of any kind, especially modern music. "Obscene lyrics" are unforgivable.

They are against illegal drugs.

Not necessarily sold on the "innocent until proven guilty" thing.

You're embarrassing yourself, Tricky.

Usually fiscally conservative, except when it comes to armies and weapons.

Fiscal conservativism is not social conservatism.

In short, social conservatives fall pretty much under the broad definition offered by Ambrose Bierce:

"CONSERVATIVE, n.
A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others. "

The truth is that social conservatives are big law and order types. They want society to run smoothly and be well-structured. They don't like anything that upsets that order and runs contrary to what they consider to be the tried and true principles that America runs on.

 

[Cain]

Social conservatives believe traditions and customs are a kind of ecosystem, and rapid cultural change is a threat to an otherwise delicate balance. People who seek to change things "women's liberation," "equal rights," and so on, fail to appreciate, according to them, the sensitivity and interconnectedness in our social relations. At least that's the argument I've seen to prop up their backward views. There's that woman from Jesus Camp who says, paraphrasing: "Look at what happened when they took God out of schools. Schools went down the drain." We see it now with gay marriage: marriage is a central institution in our society, and liberals want to revise it.

I do not think anyone mentioned regulating film, television, radio, especially for sexual content. We can broadcast Commando at 5:00 in the afternoon, but heaven forbid we see nippleage at 10:00 p.m. on basic cable. Technology will always be their enemy, which is something even the Taliban understands.

Look at how the argument against birth control has totally collapsed. The pill is an extremely radical technology, one that defiantly rebels against nature/evolution, and liberates women to have sex and dramatically reducing the chances of pregnancy. Fifty years ago people said we've had these biological mechanisms through all of humanity -- almost six thousand years -- and it would be crazy to tamper with them. It will disrupt social relationships between men and women, women and work, the raising of children and so on.

 

[RandFan]

Yes to the remarks made above but bear in mind that conservatism, social or otherwise, is more than the policies. Conservatism is akin to breaks on a truck going downhill. One only need to look at the communist revolutions to realize that not all progressive social ideas are good ones.

 

[RandFan]

As someone who lives in Georgia and spent his youth hanging out with social conservatives and their families, I think this one is wrong. They tend to be okay with piercings and moderately okay with tattoos (it depends on the content of the tattoos).

Where I grew up tattoos and piercings were taboo. I think like most human psychology the expression of conservatism is flexible. Having lived much of my life split between Utah and California I can say with confidence that social conservatives differ very much between the two on many issues. I'll concede that this is simply anecdotal observation though.

 

[ZirconBlue]

So, bigots and prudes, then?

 

[Patsy]

What have I observed a social conservative to be in my country?

Social conservatives believe that what they do in their private life is their business. They also believe what YOU do in your private life is their business. When they make mistakes and get caught, it is because they are fallable, forgiveable humans. When OTHERS make mistakes and get caught, it is because they are evil, immoral, unchristian, unamerican monsters. They believe in freedom, equality and justice, um, well, at least for those who think and believe exactly like them. Of course those OTHER people don't deserve these things, because they are evil, immoral, unchristian, and unamerican.

 

[Tricky]

Yes to the remarks made above but bear in mind that conservatism, social or otherwise, is more than the policies. Conservatism is akin to breaks on a truck going downhill. One only need to look at the communist revolutions to realize that not all progressive social ideas are good ones.

Also remember that not all socially conservative ideas are bad ones. Monogamy, as a general rule, helps society function smoothly. Strictly, but commensurately, punishing lawbreakers is a good practice when well applied.

To those who were insulted by my "list" remember that I am not accusing conservatives of having every quality on that list. I have some.

 

[gtc]

Pretty much. Add dirty things like porn and bad words.

I would say there is a large slice of social conservatism in the minority sections of the left also, depending on if by right/left you mean rep/dem. Prop 8 was evidence of that or the PMRC from the 80s. Its just a Christian thang.

Australia's left wing parties has, I believe, always had a strongly socially conservative wing that was also heavily anti-communist. Partially motivated by the Catholic trade Unionists.

In addition to what you mention:

• "no foreigners running businesses in America."
• Usually fiscally conservative, except when it comes to armies and weapons.

Economic nationalism and fiscal conservatism are traits that are often associated with social conservatives. I am not sure if they represent social values though.

Social conservatives believe traditions and customs are a kind of ecosystem, and rapid cultural change is a threat to an otherwise delicate balance.

I think that's true. Interesting that it seems like a reasonable proposition when its put like that. But the implications of that proposition are often quite nasty.

 

[shecky]

I tend to see American social conservatives as American-centric, nativist, authoritarians who's philosophy takes cues from religion and tradition. They tend to be fiscally liberal in implementing their pet issues, and collectivist in their view of how Americans should regard themselves. They do not fear government expansion under their watch.

Conservatives who don't fall under the social conservative umbrella tend to be more cosmopolitan and less nativist. They may or may not be less authoritarian. Libertarian leaning conservatives (for lack of better description) tend to be less so than neocon types, which may be more. Their philosophy relies less on religion and tradition and more on secular conservative ideologies. More individualist for the libertarian leaning conservatives, more American exceptionalist for the neocon leaning conservatives. Libertarian leaning conservatives dislike collectivist ideas. Neocon leaning conservatives are generally the opposite. Libertarian leaning conservatives view government expansion with great suspicion. Neocon leaning conservatives are fine with government expansion in the cause of neocon ideals.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Also remember that not all socially conservative ideas are bad ones. Monogamy, as a general rule, helps society function smoothly. Strictly, but commensurately, punishing lawbreakers is a good practice when well applied.

True education and trying to get people to reform are pointlessly left wing.

 

[Elizabeth I]

Australia's left wing parties has, I believe, always had a strongly socially conservative wing that was also heavily anti-communist. Partially motivated by the Catholic trade Unionists.

Australia's left wing is anti-communist? Aren't communists traditionally the extreme end of the left side of the political spectrum?

 

[gtc]

Australia's left wing is anti-communist? Aren't communists traditionally the extreme end of the left side of the political spectrum?

Yes on both.

Australia's major left wing party is the ALP and it is still dominated by trade unions. In the 1950s, many of the the Catholic trade unionists split off to form the DLP as they worried that some of the trade unions that dominated the ALP weren't sufficiently anti-communist. Almost all have since returned. The party as a whole was never sympathetic towards the commies.

Parties to the left of the ALP have almost never been elected to Parliament. The Democrats died when they moved to the left and the Greens are quite left wing but not communist.

There are some avowedly Socialist or Communist parties but they spent (and still spend) all their time bickering with each other.

Minor parties on the right have been more succesful but Australian politics is a lot closer to the centre than most people realise.