What If: Germany and co. won WW I?

bigred

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bigred
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As I say, I like these what-ifs. :)

This would be huge IMO. For starters, WW II may not happen or at least would be entirely different.....Hitler doesn't come to power (since Germany isn't in shambles...no small part of how he got to power) etc etc.

Thoughts?
 
Arguably...a united Europe (under German hegemony). The failure of the Bolshevik revolution in Russia, and possibly the emergence of a "parlimentary" system in Russia or a Constitutional Monarchy. Among other possiblities...but why stop there...what if Rome hadn't been sacked in 410? ;)
 
Oh Rome was getting sacked, there was no other possibility. :) Germany at least had a shot in both WWs.

A Russian monarchy would have been a real possible outcome. Wow that could have REALLY changed things long-term.
 
My point is that had germany won...Russia probably would have ended up with a Constitutional Monarchy or a representative democracy...and the Bolshiviks would never have been able to consolidate power with a strong, victorious Germany on their western boarder.

Also, bad as Germany was, there was a strong (if small) Jewish community in Kaiserine Germany. The anti-semitism that marked the period between the wars, charachterized by the libel that the Jews stabbed the nation in the back, would have had no currency.

It is also interesting to speculate what would have happened to England. Would a German defeat have meant a revolution in India well before Ghandi? Would it have resulted in India breaking up into many indipendent states as opposed to a single nation?

And, without Russia...what would have become of the Chinese communists?
 
bigred said:
As I say, I like these what-ifs. :)

This would be huge IMO. For starters, WW II may not happen or at least would be entirely different.....Hitler doesn't come to power (since Germany isn't in shambles...no small part of how he got to power) etc etc.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

It really reather depends on how Germany won.
 
I still think that there would have been a World War II regardless of Germany winning World War I or not.

However, I do not think that the Germans would have tried to kill all the Jews. Instead, I expect that they would have made better use of their earlier plans involving sending the Madagascar, Israel, or other places.

Also, I expect that the Germans would have still made war on the USSR (which was pretty much their focus during World War II) and that sooner or later the USA would bump against Japan.
 
Is there a H. Turtledove series about this?

If not, there should be.
 
Philip K. Dick's "Man In the High Castle" has the Germans and the Japanese split the US after their WW2 win.

A very good book.
 
Pardalis said:
Philip K. Dick's "Man In the High Castle" has the Germans and the Japanese split the US after their WW2 win.

A very good book.
Click to expand...
Talk about suspension of disbelief. :cool: Even if we lost the war, no way would that have happened. Losing to them on "their turf" is one thing...if they'd tried to come over and take over America, they would got slaughtered, even under ideal conditions for them. The logistic issues were just too great.
 
Wilhelm II was not in the sweetness and light biz, for sure, but he was no mass murderer either. I've read that the outbreak of WW One rather dismayed him; he liked parades and naval regattas, but actual shooting? "Mutti, hold me!"

A win for the Central Powers would have resulted in a Europe that much resembled pre-1914, only with a lot fewer military-age men.

For years, I've been trying to find a study of life under German occupation during 1914-1918. I've seen small references here and there -- and it was no picnic. But just how ruthless was Kaiserine Germany? Anybody?
 
geni said:
Really? How were you proposeing that Germany cope with berlin going up in a nuclear fireball?
Click to expand...

By making London and Moscow go up in their own. hey if we're playing with counterfactuals then it's not an impossibility.
 
sackett said:
Wilhelm II was not in the sweetness and light biz, for sure, but he was no mass murderer either. I've read that the outbreak of WW One rather dismayed him; he liked parades and naval regattas, but actual shooting? "Mutti, hold me!"

A win for the Central Powers would have resulted in a Europe that much resembled pre-1914, only with a lot fewer military-age men.

For years, I've been trying to find a study of life under German occupation during 1914-1918. I've seen small references here and there -- and it was no picnic. But just how ruthless was Kaiserine Germany? Anybody?
Click to expand...

The crucial difference between WWI and WWII was that in the first war Germany was not seeking a lot of land in Europe. The whole point of the Scheilfen plan was to defend Germany by getting their retaliation in first, not expand Germany by conquest (in Europe that is, in Africa it was a different matter a "place in the sun" and all that)- their treatment of the civilians reflected this difference.
 
sackett said:
Wilhelm II was not in the sweetness and light biz, for sure, but he was no mass murderer either. I've read that the outbreak of WW One rather dismayed him; he liked parades and naval regattas, but actual shooting? "Mutti, hold me!"

A win for the Central Powers would have resulted in a Europe that much resembled pre-1914, only with a lot fewer military-age men.

For years, I've been trying to find a study of life under German occupation during 1914-1918. I've seen small references here and there -- and it was no picnic. But just how ruthless was Kaiserine Germany? Anybody?
Click to expand...

occupations by deffinition tend to be rather brutal. Belgium had a hell of a time under the Kiaser's army. But, the German Empire was not Nazi Germany. They were fighting a very differnet kind of war as well. Had Germany won...Europe would have looked differnet, Germany would likely have been the most dominent states in Europe and the globe for sometime to come, but much of Europe also would have looked similar to what it looked like before WWI -- just with more pro-german governments.

Again, the most tantalizing thing would have been the likely direct German interference early on with the Bolshiviks in Russia...had Germany been winning, it is unlikely they would have, for example, facilitated Lenin's closed train in the hopes of crashing Russia to get it out of the war. Indeed, it is arguable, IMO, that a Russian rump state after the war would have moved considerably along toward a parlimentary democracy.
 
bigred said:
Talk about suspension of disbelief. :cool: Even if we lost the war, no way would that have happened. Losing to them on "their turf" is one thing...if they'd tried to come over and take over America, they would got slaughtered, even under ideal conditions for them. The logistic issues were just too great.
Click to expand...

Oh that wasn't so much of a problem since they would have come up through mexico.
 
bigred said:
Talk about suspension of disbelief. :cool: Even if we lost the war, no way would that have happened. Losing to them on "their turf" is one thing...if they'd tried to come over and take over America, they would got slaughtered, even under ideal conditions for them. The logistic issues were just too great.
Click to expand...

Oh that wasn't so much of a problem since they would have come up through mexico.
 
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