What Consciousness in the Afterlife?

Anathema

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Anathema
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Given that we goes through many stages of consciousness during our lives, how is our permanent eternal consciousness determined?

Is it the consciousness we possess at the moment of death?

If so, does a two-year old (assuming he'd taken the trouble to repent of his evil ways) arrive in heaven with a cute, slobbering toddler consciousness?

Does a cantankerous senile old man arrive in Heaven screaming, "I haven't moved my bowels today! It must be the government fluoridation conspiracy!"?

Do you get to pick your "prime" consciousness, like during your 50s or 60s, when you have all of your life experience and still had some spunk left in you?

Or, perhaps do you get your "ultimate" consciousness -- the one God knows you would have attained if he hadn't killed you off so early in the game?

Questions to ponder....

edited for brain glitch
 
These are not the sorts of questions to ask rational people, because rational minds get bored playing with them. Neither is it worthwhile to ask ordinary religious believers; minds of that sort tie themselves into increasingly twisted knots trying to find answers that comply with whatever scriptures they happen to be using.

Mystics can sometimes give you answers, using purely evocative language. For example, Hildegaard of Bingen said, "I, the fiery life of Divine Wisdom, I ignite the beauty of the plains, I sparkle the waters, I burn in the sun, and the moon, and the stars."

Now if you asked me to paraphrase that, I'd be stumped, and so would Hildegaard; and it wouldn't matter a bit, because the meaning is not in the words (the above is already a translation) and perhaps not even in the images, but in her exultation at witnessing the perfection of the universe. It seems almost miraculous that she could communicate such an incommunicable thing.

Much better because more simply than Hildegaard, Julian of Norwich said, "All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well."

That's in no sense an intellectually satisfying assertion, but it comes as close as anything I've ever read to expressing the mystic experience - and questions about the nature of the afterlife require a mystical, not a rational approach.

What would Hildegaard and Julian say if you wanted them to ponder your questions? Beats me; I'm not a mystic, much less a religious mystic. Perhaps they'd tell you (with some exasperation, as if it was obvious) that the spirit perceives everything, and thus receives everything.
 
Well, I know if I was in charge, I'd make everyone go through life in their drunkest conscious state attained during life.
 
There's a great Life in Hell strip that brushes up against this. Bongo wonders if there are cavemen in heaven, do you look exactly the same as when you died, and if you lost a limb, will it be waiting for you in heaven.

The recap there is nice, but I really think the visuals are what makes it.
 
I kind of like the interpretation from 'What Dreams May Come' - that you look however you choose, once you are ready.
 
Back when I was a Catholic (rather a long time ago....) the concept of Limbo was still in vogue. For those not familiar, Limbo was concieved as a sort of ad hoc answer to the question, "What happens to the innocent but unbaptized when they die?"

Like, little babies and all.

So LImbo was inhabited by lots of presumably innocent babies and young children, and perhaps the occasional unspoiled Noble Savage. Musta been a really weird place.
I remember thinking of some poor Aborigine with a flint spear standing around in a crowd of little rug-rats....
 
The typical answer on this board seems to be, "It doesn't matter because the only part of us that exists is our brains, and once that dies we are gone forever."

Which I agree with somewhat. But can't we put aside that? I dunno, I'm an agnostic, but I'm definitely open to the possibility of other things being out there. If you're not, then you can be just as bad as the fundies.

This is mostly the reason I don't post at this board as much as I'd like to: everyone has their set opinions, and debating them becomes pointless because no one will open themselves up to any other options.

Can't the hardcore atheists and hardcore fundies (1inC in particular causes a lot of the polarization on this board, I've noticed) just suspend their disbelief/belief for a bit and have interesting discussions?

:p

Alright, my rant's over. Want my honest opinion on the afterlife? I don't believe in any sort of eternal soul. However, I feel that conscious experience is just a little too amazing to think that it's going to be over and done with once we die. Are we reincarnated? Or for the atheists, consider this: Is it possible that something like our own awareness could manifest itself in a being similar to our own mental structure?

Probably not, but it'd sure as hell be more interesting than the alternative. Frankly, I like to play the game and I don't think I'd want to stop playing it.
 
Originally posted by ADD Boy


This is mostly the reason I don't post at this board as much as I'd like to: everyone has their set opinions, and debating them becomes pointless because no one will open themselves up to any other options.
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If you opened yourself up a little, you might find at least some here who are genuinely willing to consider different viewpoints.

But I suppose it would be pointless arguing that with you.
 
If you opened yourself up a little, you might find at least some here who are genuinely willing to consider different viewpoints.

But I suppose it would be pointless arguing that with you.
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Of course, because I'm the closeminded one :rolleyes:

I knew someone would get upset over the post. Don't take it so personally.

And yes, I know a fair number of people are openminded on this board. I just feel like sometimes "Yes, I know the atheists' positions on most of the common topics... let's get some interesting discussion going from other points of view."

Just calm down... make love, not war. :D
 
I've often wondered the same question, except with regards to physical appearance.

Do you appear as you did at time of death? In that case, the only real lookers in heavan will be svelte, well muscled barbarians who got hacked to bits by well-organized pedites circa 10 A.D. A few nicks and amputations, but otherwise manly men with mustaches and muscles to spare!

Whod'a thunk it... The imagery of Heaven is not of pastrol cloud settings with innocent looking cherubs here and there, no, mostly it's geriatric old folks with the occasional homoerotic love god who's got a javelin in his head.
 
Originally posted by ADD Boy

I knew someone would get upset over the post. Don't take it so personally.
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Actually, I was just having a little fun with you. I just couldn't resist that setup. I do think you are being a bit hasty in your conclusions, both in the post I responded to and your response to that. Challenging hasty conclusions is what we do here, but I'm really not prepared to devote a lot of energy to going back and forth with you over it. You are free to consider my input, or ignore it. Carry on as you please.
 
Eh, I have a tendency to argue my own POV a little too hastily.

I was mostly just throwing out my afterlife views just to see what other people thought of them, not to lay them out as dogma.

As to why I came to the conclusion about the message board... it comes from long periods of lurking :p I have read a lot of good posts on here before though, and maybe I put out my opinion a little too hastily. But do you feel there's any accuracy to my statement?

Or maybe I'm just sleep deprived... it's 3:30 a.m. here and that's definitely seeming like the more viable conclusion at the moment. :slp:
 
I don't think that view is necessarily a bad one.

But ask yourself, do you believe that because evidence points toward that. Or do you believe that because you'd like that to happen. Personally I'd like that to happen. Hell, I'd like God to be real. But if I'm honest with myself, I have to admit it seems unlikely.
 
Eh, mostly because I hope it happens. That's why I don't think I could honestly ever join a religion, even though Wicca interests me extremely... I'd always be saying, "Where's the evidence?" On the other hand, I've had a lot of people instill a Romantic sense into me that I can't seem to get rid of. Just finding a balance between these two seems to be the tricky part :p
 
ADD Boy said:
Eh, mostly because I hope it happens. That's why I don't think I could honestly ever join a religion, even though Wicca interests me extremely... I'd always be saying, "Where's the evidence?" On the other hand, I've had a lot of people instill a Romantic sense into me that I can't seem to get rid of. Just finding a balance between these two seems to be the tricky part :p
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You should have a chat with Z-dragon.
 
Yep, I ran into that when I first got the sense that my religion was faulty. It reminded me of something I heard a stand up comic say. He said
I think most people believe in God just in case. There's some list, and you don't want to be on it. You don't want to go through your whole life saying "there isn't a God" and then die. And be like "oops, is there some kinda community service I can do?"
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eventually the last sliver of "faith" disappeared. I thought I'd feel bad that I didn't believe. Actually I feel bad for those who do. It's like when you first learned there wasn't a Santa clause, and you still have friends who think he's real. I'd think to myself "It's so sad he doesn't know the truth"
 
Add Boy said:
Alright, my rant's over. Want my honest opinion on the afterlife? I don't believe in any sort of eternal soul. However, I feel that conscious experience is just a little too amazing to think that it's going to be over and done with once we die. Are we reincarnated? Or for the atheists, consider this: Is it possible that something like our own awareness could manifest itself in a being similar to our own mental structure?
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I'm not sure why "amazingness" leads to "must be permanent."

It is certainly possible that our consciousness could exist as a separate entity, somehow, but where the heck are all these entities then?

~~ Paul
 
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