We Will Not Rest Until He is Killed or Captured!

[Mephisto]

Bush's words regarding Osama Bin Laden? Nope! U.S. Army General Ricard Sanchez regarding Moqtada al-Sadr. Sanchez also said that we would not rest until his militia was completely destroyed.

Reality?

Hardly so. Moqtada al-Sadr is stronger than ever. The expedient murder warrant against him has all but been forgotten (it was clearly a ruse anyway), and he now boasts 15,000 armed followers (three times as many as when he fought U.S. forces in Fallujah) and still embraces the idea of a theocratic government.

But this is just a religious-extremist-buffoon much like Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell only dangerous. He doesn't have any real political clout, right?

"Sadr has joined the political process with stunning results. The current prime minister, Ibrahim Jaafari, effectively owes his job to the renegade cleric.' Despite the fact that Sadr was not himself an elected official, he and his followers were able to play the role of "kingmaker" within the Shiite coalition,"says Anthony Cordesman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies."

(April 10 issue of Newsweek, "Sadr Strikes").

Even more noteworthy is:

"Sadr's followers have control of two ministeries - health and transportation - and have banned American advisors from entering ministry buildings." (April 10 issue of Newsweek, "Sadr Strikes")

What's left to say but, "Mission Accomplished?" That is . . . if the mission was to liberate the Iraqi people from a horrible (secular) dictator who hates America and turn it over to a religious dictator who hates America (and whose philosophy is more closely related to Iran - ironically, by "fighting them there instead of here" we have created strong allies among countries who can only agree that they hate us.

 

[Gargoyle]

This is the way politics work: it´s not the act (of hostility) that counts - it´s the thought behind it! The result is even less important...

 

[Charlie Monoxide]

I thought gay marriage became a bigger threat than bin Ladin ....

Charlie (voters have short memory and attention spans) Monoxide

 

[Mephisto]

This is the way politics work: it´s not the act (of hostility) that counts - it´s the thought behind it! The result is even less important...

I'm beginning to believe that's true, Gargoyle.

P.S. Cool avatar!

 

[Mephisto]

I thought gay marriage became a bigger threat than bin Ladin ....

Charlie (voters have short memory and attention spans) Monoxide

I think you hit the nail right on the head, Mr. Charlie (always an appropriate comment) Monoxide! Just who IS that Bin Laden guy the "librals" keep pointing at?

 

[WildCat]

Hardly so. Moqtada al-Sadr is stronger than ever. The expedient murder warrant against him has all but been forgotten (it was clearly a ruse anyway), and he now boasts 15,000 armed followers (three times as many as when he fought U.S. forces in Fallujah) and still embraces the idea of a theocratic government.

The Sadr militia certanly has to go if Iraq is ever to be stable, I think the attack on Sadr militia in the mosque a few weeks ago was a test run for a bigger offensive, to gauge the street reaction.

If an all-out military offensive is politically infeasible, then dissolving and re-building the police forces are certainly in order. Too many Sadr sympathizers there, and the Iraqi's do not trust their own police forces as they are implicated in many of the recent slaughters.

BTW, it wasn't Sadr fighting US forces in Fallujah, it was Sunni insurgents/terrorists and al Qaeda.

 

[Mephisto]

The Sadr militia certanly has to go if Iraq is ever to be stable, I think the attack on Sadr militia in the mosque a few weeks ago was a test run for a bigger offensive, to gauge the street reaction.

If an all-out military offensive is politically infeasible, then dissolving and re-building the police forces are certainly in order. Too many Sadr sympathizers there, and the Iraqi's do not trust their own police forces as they are implicated in many of the recent slaughters.

BTW, it wasn't Sadr fighting US forces in Fallujah, it was Sunni insurgents/terrorists and al Qaeda.

You're 100% right, WildCat. I think it's very dangerous to allow such a influential religious figure steer Iraq, especially since he's shown that violence isn't out of his book.

Regading your correction - thanks! I realized my mistake after a few days and couldn't edit it. I was actually pretty interested in who would catch it. Kudos to you.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Why on earth do we continue with this politicians? I do not, and will never vote, btw, I dont believe in the political system.

 

[Mephisto]

Why on earth do we continue with this politicians? I do not, and will never vote, btw, I dont believe in the political system.

I agree, up to a point. Voting (at least in America) isn't choosing the best man for the job, it's choosing the lesser of two evils. It's unfortunate that we only have a choice of EITHER/OR, and to be honest the only reason I'm currently involved in the political process is because I guessed (apparently correctly) a long time ago that Bush & Co. would screw things up royally.

Believe it or not, the FIRST time I ever voted (in my entire life) was when Bush ran for his second term.

 

[Rob Lister]

Why on earth do we continue with this politicians? I do not, and will never vote, btw, I dont believe in the political system.

That is akin to 'believing' in a religious system.

The political system demonstratably, provably, exists. Ignoring it doesn't make it go away; and in fact makes it stronger in ways you may not want.

What you really mean, no doubt, is that you do not like the political system and therefore refuse to participate in it. Still, it doesn't matter what you like. It is what it is. You can try to ignore it but the more you do, the more it will intrude in your reality. It exists, and not believing in it, not liking it, doesn't change that.

Might I suggest a nice healthy dose of reality; undiluted by homeopathic preperations: join the process and bend it to your will; if you don't, someone else certainly will, and you're far less likely to like the result.

 

[Mephisto]

. . . snip. . . join the process and bend it to your will; if you don't, someone else certainly will, and you're far less likely to like the result.

Well, try as I might, I couldn't "bend it to my will" at all. Considering all the furor regarding voting machine irregularities and Black voters in Florida as well as the Supreme Court saying it wasn't important to completely count the votes in 2004, I didn't make one iota of difference.

I'm not even sure I'll ever vote again. I see the entire process as somewhat akin to deciding whether to be hanged or stabbed to death.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

That is akin to 'believing' in a religious system.

The political system demonstratably, provably, exists. Ignoring it doesn't make it go away; and in fact makes it stronger in ways you may not want.

What you really mean, no doubt, is that you do not like the political system and therefore refuse to participate in it. Still, it doesn't matter what you like. It is what it is. You can try to ignore it but the more you do, the more it will intrude in your reality. It exists, and not believing in it, not liking it, doesn't change that.

Might I suggest a nice healthy dose of reality; undiluted by homeopathic preperations: join the process and bend it to your will; if you don't, someone else certainly will, and you're far less likely to like the result.

Exactly, I didnt want to imply that there are no politics. In fact, I do believe that its innate in humans, so the point here is that I dont believe in politicians. Now, contrary to what you believe I think that the fact that less and less people is voting (at least in some countries) indicates that those people will not buy anymore anything any politician would promise. It demonstrate (imo) that they simply dont care.

Now, you can say that even if 70% of the population dont vote the rest 30% can decide the political outcome of some country. Yes and no. There should be an end, someday.

On the other hand, you touch some important points. If I really dont like something I have to try to change it, even if that means to change the mentality of just one individual.

Maybe someday. Oh, anyway, sorry if Im not expressing what I really want, but Im a bit tired and going out.

 

[Gargoyle]

Why on earth do we continue with this politicians? I do not, and will never vote, btw, I dont believe in the political system.

Like Winston Churchill said:
"Democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time"

 

[Jon_in_london]

If an all-out military offensive is politically infeasible, then dissolving and re-building the police forces are certainly in order. Too many Sadr sympathizers there, and the Iraqi's do not trust their own police forces as they are implicated in many of the recent slaughters.

So what you are saying is that we should redissolve the Iraqi police? Perhaps we should redissolve the army and civil service too? Then maybe we can just pull out and re-invade all over again and try and do it right this time?

 

[Mephisto]

So what you are saying is that we should redissolve the Iraqi police? Perhaps we should redissolve the army and civil service too? Then maybe we can just pull out and re-invade all over again and try and do it right this time?

Excellent points, Jon. I think the first mistake of this war was to disband Saddam's military under the notion that they would no longer be a threat. We effectively turned away thousands of military men with experience in weapons, explosives and a working knowledge of every major city (and hidden weapons cache) in Iraq. And we wonder where the insurgents are coming from . . .

Same thing with the police force. I would reckon that the only time police recruitment centers in Iraq AREN'T being bombed is when the insurgents are planting their own into the police force.

I still support Wildcat's claim that Sadr's group is still extremely dangerous. There is no active recruitment going on, they are not applying for civil servant jobs (police, etc.), they'd know if they were being inflitrated, they're NOT being targeted by the Sunni as a group and they're actively AGAINST the coalition. Makes for a volatile mix if you ask me.

 

[bignickel]

Don't blame me; I voted for Kodos.