We may all be a little neanderthal

StewartP

Critical Thinker
StewartP
Joined
Feb 5, 2006
Messages
449
cool.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/08/29/neander29.xml

People of European descent may be five per cent Neanderthal, according to a study published in the journal PLoS Genetics, which suggests we all have a sprinkling of archaic DNA in our genes.
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It makes for a great riposte to the anti evolutionists who get aggressive with "are you saying I'm descended from a monkey?"
"No, I'm saying we're still monkeys!"

don't hassle me about "we're not descended from monkeys, but rather monkeys and us have common ancestors ....blah blah blah. it spoils the jokes.
 
Thanks for this; I'd almost got used to believing Chris Stringer and co without question. I've always gone along with those who suspected that there must be some Neanderthal contribution to the "modern" gene pool.
 
I sure knew a couple of brothers that must have been throw-backs. Large, big boned, large noses, with the hollow sound. Not too bright, though not drooling idjits either. They looked like brothers, but nothing like their parents- who said they were their natural children, not adoptees. Last I heard, they were both in the state mental hospital for the obsenely insane, but I've never heard the particulars. Fighting or immoral sex acts probably.
 
casebro said:
I sure knew a couple of brothers that must have been throw-backs. Large, big boned, large noses, with the hollow sound. Not too bright, though not drooling idjits either. They looked like brothers, but nothing like their parents- who said they were their natural children, not adoptees. Last I heard, they were both in the state mental hospital for the obsenely insane, but I've never heard the particulars. Fighting or immoral sex acts probably.
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This kind of stereotype bugs me.

Thanks for the link, Stewart P! It sure is cool!
 
I recall seeing some time ago, a BBC television program, "Meet the Ancestors" I think, where they made up an actor to look like a Neanderthal, then sent the actor out to walk around Central London?, The actor actually didn't look unusuall, or too out of place, and actually drew only a small amount of stares from passers by.

The point being, that a Neanderthal looks "Human", and not so different from us after all.
 
You know, technically the neandertal's had, on average, bigger brains than modern day humans. Chances are, at the very least ,they were no dumber than humans.
 
There must have been some interbreeding between Neanderthals and homo sapiens, although I'm sure it was frowned upon.

I can picture the scene, 2 early humans - one nursing a major hangover.

"You won't believe what I did last night....":blush:
 
I think the jury is still, in general, out on whether we interbred with Neanderthali or not.

However, there is no reason to assume that they were mentally more primitive than their contemporary Chro-Magnon cousins. If you could time-lift a Neanderthal man to the present, give him a bath, a shave, hair-cut, modern clothes, and a short introduction to dos and don'ts, then he could probably walk arround unnoticed. (Obviously, the same is true for a woman, although she would probably be noticed more for lacking some elegance.)

Hans
 
Just Europeans?

And 5% of our DNA? I don't get this. We have less than a 2% difference between chimps. But if just Europeans have 5% of their DNA from neanderthals then that would imply Europeans have more than a 5% difference from Asians or Africans.

What am I missing?
 
MRC_Hans said:
I think the jury is still, in general, out on whether we interbred with Neanderthali or not.

However, there is no reason to assume that they were mentally more primitive than their contemporary Chro-Magnon cousins. If you could time-lift a Neanderthal man to the present, give him a bath, a shave, hair-cut, modern clothes, and a short introduction to dos and don'ts, then he could probably walk arround unnoticed. (Obviously, the same is true for a woman, although she would probably be noticed more for lacking some elegance.)

Hans
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Why would you think that a Neanderthal woman would lack elegance?

I hope you're not picturing the hairy, slope shouldered, dangling armed, semi apelike gait that is the typical stereotype. Analysis of skeletons indicate similar posture and gait to modern humans. Same goes for Homo Erectus, Habilis, etc, back as far as the australopithicines, I believe.
 
Certainly. Still, to the best of our knowledge Neanderthali were stronger, more robustly built, and had more coarse facial features than modern man. All else alike, that would stand out more in a woman, thus making her somewhat more noticable.

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
Certainly. Still, to the best of our knowledge Neanderthali were stronger, more robustly built, and had more coarse facial features than modern man. All else alike, that would stand out more in a woman, thus making her somewhat more noticable.

Hans
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I wish I could find some reconstructions on the web. There were some good ones done a long time ago in National Geographic, but I can't even remember what issue it was.

Suffice to say they were a bit different but not THAT different.
 
I think the 'average neanderthal' wouldn't be nearly as strong as a modern human powerlifter or strongman.


What did they weigh on average as adults?
 
Dustin said:
I think the 'average neanderthal' wouldn't be nearly as strong as a modern human powerlifter or strongman.


What did they weigh on average as adults?
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Based on bone density studies, yes, actually they would be that strong. Based on injury analysis, they got hurt the same as rodeo riders (which kind of makes sense when one considers they were jabbing a stick into a large mammal to kill it for dinner)

From what I recall, estimates of adult male weights were in the 185 to 200 lb range, at heights less than 6 ft.

The above is off the top of my head, but one can refer to work by Chris Stringer and (??) Wolpoff or any of the myriad of stuff you can google for if you need peer reviewed documentation.
 
Badger said:
Based on bone density studies, yes, actually they would be that strong. Based on injury analysis, they got hurt the same as rodeo riders (which kind of makes sense when one considers they were jabbing a stick into a large mammal to kill it for dinner)

From what I recall, estimates of adult male weights were in the 185 to 200 lb range, at heights less than 6 ft.

The above is off the top of my head, but one can refer to work by Chris Stringer and (??) Wolpoff or any of the myriad of stuff you can google for if you need peer reviewed documentation.
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Comparisons:

Neanderthal Height 5 feet 6 inches

Human Height 5 feet 9 inches

Neanderthal Weight 142 lb Human Weight 172 lb

Neanderthal Brain 1 200 - 1 700 cc

Human Brain 1 300 - 1 500 cc
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http://donsmaps.com/mousterian.html


At that size I find it highly unlikely they would of been as strong as some 300lb strongmen or powerlifters.
 
Oldpossum said:
I recall seeing some time ago, a BBC television program, "Meet the Ancestors" I think, where they made up an actor to look like a Neanderthal, then sent the actor out to walk around Central London?, The actor actually didn't look unusuall, or too out of place, and actually drew only a small amount of stares from passers by.

The point being, that a Neanderthal looks "Human", and not so different from us after all.
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What were they wearing?
 
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