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Vaccine Nation

Mephisto

Philosopher
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Messages
6,064
Hmmmm, mercury in medicine? Who thought this was a good idea? An old article, but still relevant.

A Capitol Hill Mystery: Who Aided Drug Maker?

by Sheryl Gay Stolberg

WASHINGTON, Nov. 28 — Lobbyists for Eli Lilly & Company, the pharmaceutical giant, did not have much luck when they made the rounds on Capitol Hill earlier this year, seeking protection from lawsuits over a preservative in vaccines. Senator Bill Frist, Republican of Tennessee, tucked a provision into a bill that went nowhere. When lawmakers rebuffed a request to slip language into domestic security legislation, a Lilly spokesman said, the company gave up.

Now, in a Washington whodunit worthy of Agatha Christie, the provision has been resurrected and become law, as part of the domestic security legislation signed on Monday by President Bush. Yet in a city where politicians have perfected the art of claiming credit for deeds large and small, not a single member of Congress — or the Bush administration — will admit to being the author of the Lilly rider.

"It's turning into one of Washington's most interesting parlor games," said Dave Lemmon, spokesman for Senator Debbie Stabenow, Democrat of Michigan, who has promised to introduce legislation to repeal the provision. "There's a lot of guessing, a lot of speculation as to who did this."

The provision forces lawsuits over the preservative, developed by Eli Lilly and called thimerosal, into a special "vaccine court." It may result in the dismissal of thousands of cases filed by parents who contend that mercury in thimerosal has poisoned their children, causing autism and other neurological ailments. Among them are Joseph and Theresa Counter of Plano, Tex., devoted Republicans whose party allegiance has run smack into family ties.

The Counters' 6-year-old son, Joseph Alexander, was normal and healthy until he was 2, they say. Then he took an unexplained downward slide. Today, the boy struggles with words. He cannot zip his pants, snap buttons or tie his shoes. His parents say tests eventually showed that he had mercury poisoning, which they attribute to vaccines. They sued last year.

"I know that our legislative system can be very, very messy at times," said Mr. Counter, a political consultant, who with his wife has spent many thousands of dollars on medical care and therapy for their son. "But for them to attempt this, in the dead of night? It disgusts me. This morning, I am ashamed to be a Republican."

With lawmakers now scattered across the country, Washington is rife with speculation about who is responsible for aiding Lilly, a major Republican donor. During the 2002 election cycle, the company gave more money to political candidates, $1.6 million, than any other pharmaceutical company, with 79 percent of it going to Republicans, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonprofit research group that monitors campaign finances.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1129-03.htm
____________

And more recently:

New Legislation Aims to Resolve Controversy About Mercury and Vaccines

Reps. Maloney and Osborne introduce bill that would require new study of the possible link between mercury and autism
WASHINGTON, DC – Reps. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY) and Tom Osborne (R-NE) introduced new legislation today that would require the National Institutes of Health to conduct a comprehensive comparative study of vaccinated and unvaccinated populations, which may resolve the controversy about the possible link between autism and mercury or other vaccine components (Text of legislation).
A large number of parents have raised concerns about the effect that thimerosal, which is used as a preservative in vaccines and is a form of the known neurotoxin mercury, may have on a child’s chances of developing autism and other neurological disorders. Some of the parents have concerns about other components used in vaccines. The study mandated by this new legislation would try to help resolve this controversy.

“Childhood immunizations greatly reduce human suffering from infectious disease, and I think it would be in the best interest of everyone if we definitively resolve parents’ questions about vaccines,” said Rep. Maloney. “Parents deserve answers. As the most scientifically advanced country in the world, we should be able to conduct a comprehensive study of the health effects of vaccines to restore absolute trust in the nation’s vaccine program. Our nation’s children deserve no less.”

http://maloney.house.gov/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1168&Itemid=61
 
Woo woo!!!

This is just another offshot of the old Woo conspiracy theory about vaccines causing autism.

I congratulate Mephisto for trying to post news items that are not just anti-Bush. I am sorry he had to tread into woo-territory to do it.
 
It's a shame Congress didn't do this for Dow before the breast implant danger fraud got out of hand, too. Billions spent paying out "successful" lawsuits over the scientific truth.
 
Just how does someone amend a bill, not only without anyone noticing, but without any record of who tabled the amendment?
Is the old Simpsons joke about the paper-clip really true?
 
as far as i know, yes.

So they don't get fantastic phrases such as this uttered in the chambers of their legislature? :D

Seriously, does any one here actually know anything about the mechanics of amending a federal US bill? Do you even need to be a member of Congress, or could anyone with access to the buildings amend bills and get away with it? :confused:
 
Woo woo!!!

This is just another offshot of the old Woo conspiracy theory about vaccines causing autism.

I congratulate Mephisto for trying to post news items that are not just anti-Bush. I am sorry he had to tread into woo-territory to do it.
What is woo about the concern for thimerosal in vaccines? I'm asking seriously...I need to learn. My son was just vaccinated yesterday with non-thimerosal vaccines. I have a nephew with autism, and my wife's sister-in-law is certain it was the vaccines (because of the timing and noticeable symptoms).

As a skeptic, I was pleased with the doctor's responses to our questions, especially since there was no thimerosal in the vaccine anyway, so we went ahead with the shots. But I'd like to know more if you have anything (I'll Google too).
 
So they don't get fantastic phrases such as this uttered in the chambers of their legislature? :D

Seriously, does any one here actually know anything about the mechanics of amending a federal US bill? Do you even need to be a member of Congress, or could anyone with access to the buildings amend bills and get away with it? :confused:

I find the framing of the thing unbelievable. You can check the history of any bill on thomas.gov -- and every amendment to it. Did someone delete the record?

The name or number of the bill is not mentioned
Any member of congress that voted for the bill without full knowledge of the bill's contents needs to be shown the door.
If backroom dealings went on wherein it gave certain members plausible deniability then I say that the burden of proof is on them to prove such an inplausibility.
 
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What is woo about the concern for thimerosal in vaccines? I'm asking seriously...I need to learn. My son was just vaccinated yesterday with non-thimerosal vaccines. I have a nephew with autism, and my wife's sister-in-law is certain it was the vaccines (because of the timing and noticeable symptoms).

As a skeptic, I was pleased with the doctor's responses to our questions, especially since there was no thimerosal in the vaccine anyway, so we went ahead with the shots. But I'd like to know more if you have anything (I'll Google too).
What is woo? i'll tell you.

From my site, there is also a piece on the etiology of autism which is relevant, and i'm sure the article on chelation(in relation to mercury) will piss you off. :)

hope it is of some use.

http://www.autismmyths.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=11
----------------------------------------


In recent years many parents have noticed a correlation between giving their children vaccinations, and the childrens being diagnosed with autism.

The vaccination in question have either been MMR or a Thimerosal based children vaccination.

Thimerosal is a preservative which contains almost 50% mercury. And mercury poisoning does have a lot in common with ASD(Autism Spectrum Disorder).

This have lead to many outspoken groups and parents fighting against vaccination of their children.

----------

Vaccination is not a cause of autism. The problem here is that people see a correlation, and think it is causation. But that is not how the world works.

Children are given their child vaccination usually a bit before the signs of autism can be seen.

That is, if the child is given an MMR vaccination 6 months before the child is diagnosed with autism, that doesn't mean the MMR caused it. The child would have had autism all the time, it just isn't noticeable till a certain age.

If the child had eaten a candy cone 6 months before the child is diagnosed with autism, is that good reason to claim that candy cones causes autism? Of course it isn't.

If you don't make a distinction between correlation and causation you will end up with arguments like that. Arguments that have nothing to do with science.

I'll just hyperbole to prove my point, bear with me.

Many people eat ice-cream during the summer.
More people have heat strokes during the summer.
Thus we can conclude that ice-cream causes heat strokes.

It doesn't work like that.

A correlation can, at most, give a good area to scientifically study, which have been done. And these studies have suggested that there is no link between mercury and autism.

Both in Japan and in Denmark Mercury have been removed from vaccinations, and in both Japan and Denmark the number of children with Autism INCREASED.

That said, the amount of Mercury in Thiomersal is not enough to make a difference.

And if you eat a fish, you will get more mercury from a single fish than what you get from all vaccinations you will get through your entire life.

Also, just a little note. There is not, now, nor have there ever been, mercury in the MMR vaccine.

Ethylmercury is present in some vaccines in a compound called thiomersal. It is used in some vaccines to keep the vaccine free of contamination. It has been used in vaccines for over 60 years and has played an important role in maintaining vaccine safety. There is no thiomersal in MMR.
[1]

Here we have a study where they couldn't find any correlation between mercury and autism.

Abstract: Although mercury has been proven to be a neurotoxicant, there is a lack of data to evaluate the causal relationship between mercury and autism. We aim to see if there is increased mercury exposure in children with autistic spectrum disorder. We performed a cross-sectional cohort study over a 5-month period in 2000 to compare the hair and blood mercury levels of children with autistic spectrum disorder (n = 82; mean age 7.2 years) and a control group of normal children (n = 55; mean age 7.8 years). There was no difference in the mean mercury levels. ... Thus, the results from our cohort study with similar environmental mercury exposure indicate that there is no causal relationship between mercury as an environmental neurotoxin and autism.
[2]

CONCLUSIONS: Studies do not demonstrate a link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and ASD, and the pharmacokinetics of ethylmercury make such an association less likely. Epidemiologic studies that support a link demonstrated significant design flaws that invalidate their conclusions. Evidence does not support a change in the standard of practice with regard to administration of thimerosal-containing vaccines in areas of the world where they are used.
[3]

CONCLUSIONS: With the possible exception of tics, there was no evidence that thimerosal exposure via DTP/DT vaccines causes neurodevelopmental disorders.
[4]

Autism, a neurodevelopmental disorder, may involve autoimmune pathogenesis. Since mercury is potentially a risk factor for autoimmunity, we conducted a study of mercury-induced antinuclear and antilaminin antibodies in autistic and normal children who had been pre-administered with thimerosal-containing vaccines. Laboratory analysis by different immunoassays showed that the serum level of these two autoimmune markers did not significantly differ between autistic and normal children. This finding suggests that the mercury as in thimerosal-containing vaccines is likely not related to autoimmune phenomenon in autism.
[5]


CONCLUSIONS: No consistent significant associations were found between TCVs and neurodevelopmental outcomes. Conflicting results were found at different HMOs for certain outcomes. For resolving the conflicting findings, studies with uniform neurodevelopmental assessments of children with a range of cumulative thimerosal exposures are needed.
[6]

CONCLUSIONS: The discontinuation of thimerosal-containing vaccines in Denmark in 1992 was followed by an increase in the incidence of autism. Our ecological data do not support a correlation between thimerosal-containing vaccines and the incidence of autism.
[7]

CONCLUSIONS: The body of existing data, including the ecologic data presented herein, is not consistent with the hypothesis that increased exposure to Thimerosal-containing vaccines is responsible for the apparent increase in the rates of autism in young children being observed worldwide.
[8]


Vaccines have turned many childhood diseases into distant memories in industrialized countries. However, questions have been raised about the safety of some vaccines because of rare but serious adverse effects that have been attributed to them. Pain, swelling, and redness at the injection site are common local reactions to vaccines. Fever and irritability may occur after some immunizations. Currently, no substantial evidence links measles-mumps-rubella vaccine to autism, or hepatitis B vaccine to multiple sclerosis. Thimerosal is being eliminated from routine childhood vaccines because of concerns that multiple immunizations with vaccines containing this preservative could exceed recommended mercury exposures. Family physicians should be knowledgeable about vaccines so that they can inform their patients of the benefits of immunization and any proven risks. If immunization rates fall, the incidence of vaccine-preventable illnesses may rise.
[9]

Need i go on?

UPDATE: Apparantly i do, so here is a bit more on mercury, and how to "cure" autism with chelation therapy

Links:
[1] MMR the facts

[2] Mercury Exposure in Children With Autistic Spectrum Disorder: Case-Control Study

[3] Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines and Autistic Spectrum Disorder: A Critical Review of Published Original Data

[4] Thimerosal Exposure in Infants and Developmental Disorders: A Retrospective Cohort Study in the United Kingdom Does Not Support a Causal Association

[5] Detection of Antinuclear and Antilaminin Antibodies in Autistic Children Who Received Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines

[6] Safety of Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines: A Two-Phased Study of Computerized Health Maintenance Organization Databases

[7] Thimerosal and the Occurrence of Autism: Negative Ecological Evidence From Danish Population-Based Data

[8] Autism and thimerosal-containing vaccines Lack of consistent evidence for an association.

[9] Vaccine Adverse Events: Separating Myth from Reality
 
What is woo about the concern for thimerosal in vaccines? I'm asking seriously...I need to learn. My son was just vaccinated yesterday with non-thimerosal vaccines. I have a nephew with autism, and my wife's sister-in-law is certain it was the vaccines (because of the timing and noticeable symptoms).

As a skeptic, I was pleased with the doctor's responses to our questions, especially since there was no thimerosal in the vaccine anyway, so we went ahead with the shots. But I'd like to know more if you have anything (I'll Google too).

The woo is that thimerosal has never been shown to be dangerous, furthermore most (all?) of the arguments against thimerosal are arguments against mercury, but thimerosal isn't elemental mercury, you may as well ague that table salt is highly dangerous, because it contains chlorine.
 
What is woo about the concern for thimerosal in vaccines?

Huge studies in Japan and Canada have show there to be no link. Studies with huge samples. There was no jump in rates when it was added and no drop when it was removed. In fact it was removed in the US in 2002 and we have seen no drop in rates.

There is nothing on the other side suggesting a link apart form the observations of (of few hundred) parents. The problem with that is as the vaccine is given at around 2 and children do not start to make the social development goals that enable diagnosis until 2 years old saying a child regressed when given the vaccine (from social skills not available until 2) is not really a scientific way of establishing causation.

Other than that we have tiny amount of Mercury in Vaccine and generally far more in umbilical chords due to environmental contamination. The environmental mercury is Methyl and in vaccine we have Ethyl Mercury. Methyl is far more neuro-toxic. So if you are going to believe in Mercury poisoning, you really should be looking at environmental contamination.
 
So, back to the thread topic (since this is the politics forum) what was the bill number. Tell me and I'll try to do the detective work and have who sponsored the amendment back to you all shortly. Unless the records were erased from thomas.gov, the info will be there.
 
So, back to the thread topic (since this is the politics forum) what was the bill number. Tell me and I'll try to do the detective work and have who sponsored the amendment back to you all shortly. Unless the records were erased from thomas.gov, the info will be there.

looking at this it appears that the ammendment was attached to the "The Homeland Security Department Charter" I've been searchign and I can't find a bill (act) of that name.
 
Going off of the available information, I think it may be this act
http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:H.R.5005:
The trouble is, I cant tell which amendment it would be, without reading the entire text. The inconsiderate bastages didn't table an amendment labeled
"Amendment to stop anti vaxxers from profiteering from their child's autism".
;)

Hard to work it that way :O
Better to find the specific line item in the passed bill and work your way backward.

Suffice it to say that those that voted for or against it knew or should have known. Now, I'll be the first to say that such a law is needed, and needs to be broadened, but I don't buy for a moment that it just appeared in the bill and they (those that voted for or against) didn't know it was there and didn't know who added it.

This, of course, assumes that such a provision is even included in the bill.
 
So they don't get fantastic phrases such as this uttered in the chambers of their legislature? :D

Seriously, does any one here actually know anything about the mechanics of amending a federal US bill? Do you even need to be a member of Congress, or could anyone with access to the buildings amend bills and get away with it? :confused:

I've heard of a number of incidents where the versions of laws voted on were different from what was actually passed out for review, and the versions the president signed were different from what was voted on in Congress.
 
This reminds me of the arsenic water standards jammed way up by Clinton just before he left office -- to force his successor to either implement costly treatments or face the heat from reversing it "you want us to have lots of arsenic?!?!?" Was the science justified?
 

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