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Vaccination does not prevent transmission

Hercules56

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The studies seem to be pretty clear that being vaccinated does not prevent transmission of Covid. Perhaps it reduces the timeframe of transmission, but being vaccinated does not prevent infection or transmission.

That being said, do vaccine mandates still make sense? Wasn't the main purpose being to prevent transmission?
 
Hercules56 said:
The studies seem to be pretty clear that being vaccinated does not prevent transmission of Covid. Perhaps it reduces the timeframe of transmission, but being vaccinated does not prevent infection or transmission.

That being said, do vaccine mandates still make sense? Wasn't the main purpose being to prevent transmission?
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I assume the main purpose was to reduce infection rates and thus reduce stress on the hospital system.

I get the vaccine not to prevent my transmission to you, but to prevent your transmission to me, and to mitigate the health impact to me if I somehow contract it anyway.
 
theprestige said:
I assume the main purpose was to reduce infection rates and thus reduce stress on the hospital system.

I get the vaccine not to prevent my transmission to you, but to prevent your transmission to me, and to mitigate the health impact to me if I somehow contract it anyway.
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Would be great if it really reduced transmission rates, which I believe it did somewhat for Delta. However I do believe in the collective good so Im still all for vaccine mandates.
 
Not saying the OP is anti-vaxx but the anti-vaxxers have been pushing the Nirvana Fallacy logic hard during this. What if you can still get sick? What if you can still transmit? What if variants that are vaccine evasive come along?

The point is that vaccines REDUCE the chances of these and the more people vaccinated the fewer opportunities for the virus to mutate to something more evasive or transmissible.
 
"Vaccination does not prevent transmission"

To be fair, I assume you mean "Vaccination does not prevent transmission anymore". That's because the virus has mutated into new variants that are better able to break through the immunity. In the beginning they actually did reduce transmission.

The main logic for vaccine mandates would be to reduce the burden on the hospital systems. The current vaccines still do that for people who haven't yet been exposed to the virus. But there's a political cost to mandating it, and I suspect that the marginal benefit at this point isn't enough to justify it anymore in the US. You can still see what can happen when you have a lot of unvaxxed vulnerable people by looking at the current situation in Hong Kong. Hospitals there really have been overwhelmed these past few weeks.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/A...-COVID-exposes-cracks-in-Hong-Kong-leadership

https://www.theatlantic.com/interna.../hong-kong-china-covid-surge-lockdown/627083/

Even just look at some of the photos of makeshift wards in parking lots. It seems obvious in hindsight that a vaccine mandate or even just a vigorous campaign to encourage and facilitate voluntary vaccination among the elderly and vulnerable would have helped there, if it had happened prior to the arrival of the omicron wave.
 
Hercules56 said:
The studies seem to be pretty clear that being vaccinated does not prevent transmission of Covid. Perhaps it reduces the timeframe of transmission, but being vaccinated does not prevent infection or transmission.
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It still reduces transmission, even with omicron.

Hercules56 said:
That being said, do vaccine mandates still make sense? Wasn't the main purpose being to prevent transmission?
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No, the main purpose is stopping people dying of it, something the vaccines have been spectacularly successful at. They have reduced mortality rates by well over 90%. (95%, going by NZ's results to date)
 
It's amazing, but at the same time not surprising that this needs to be explained to anybody on the ******* planet at this point. We are doomed, it's just a matter of time.
 
Vaccination doesn't create some invisible shield through which germs cannot pass. I think the idea really is more of reduction in the load of whatever disease causing agent you have, so it's less likely to pass on to others.

The problem is regular folks want easy cut and dried boundaries on what works and what doesn't. Seems to me public health communicators sometimes speak in overly reassuring terms because the public is usually plain ignorant, misinformed, or stupid. That 6 feet of distance you're told to keep doesn't mean the germs will get ya at 5.999 feet either.
 
jt512 said:
Against Omicron? The current vaccines? I don't think so.
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In a population, most certainly. Just that COVID-19 is highly contagious, far more so than typical coronaviruses. So the transmission rate is still high by comparison to them.

Imagine how high it might be if a population were not vaccinated. Not only would the effects be more severe, the transmission rate in that population would be way higher. But we don’t have to imagine. That is happening right before our eyes with the wilfully unvaxxed.
 
Vaccination speeds up immune response to a given pathogen. It does not in all cases stop transmission of COVID, but it drastically the reduces the amount of time a given individual remains contagious and reduces the amount of virus that is released into the environment; resulting in major reductions in transmissibility. Not to mention, oh yeah, also drastically reducing the harm the disease causes afflicted individuals. Somehow this fact eludes obscenely large swathes of the US population.
 
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Norman Alexander said:
In a population, most certainly. Just that COVID-19 is highly contagious, far more so than typical coronaviruses. So the transmission rate is still high by comparison to them.

Imagine how high it might be if a population were not vaccinated. Not only would the effects be more severe, the transmission rate in that population would be way higher. But we don’t have to imagine. That is happening right before our eyes with the wilfully unvaxxed.
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What is your source for this? Every study I've seen shows that within a couple months, the current vaccines have little-to-no effectiveness against symptomatic Omicron infection. And if you have a symptomatic infection, you can transmit the disease.
 
jt512 said:
What is your source for this? Every study I've seen shows that within a couple months, the current vaccines have little-to-no effectiveness against symptomatic Omicron infection. And if you have a symptomatic infection, you can transmit the disease.
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There's two parts to infection: source and target (so to speak).

If the source is infected then yes, they can (obviously) infect someone else. However if their virus load is low because they are vaccinated, the possibility of that transmission happening is lower.

If the target has a higher resistance to infection because they are vaccinated, the possibility of them getting infected is lower.

Overall, lower transmission rate and lower infection rate results in a "blunting" of the virus throughout populations.

That does not mean every vaccinated person has a Captain America shield and is 100% impervious to COVID, both as source and target. There will be infections of vaccinated people, and it can be passed on to vaccinated people, i.e. breakthrough infections. Just the probabilities of this happening are lower in a well-vaccinated population.
 
the persistence of memory

Eric Topol's sub stack has some nice graphs and a discussion of a fourth shot. "As I’ve reviewed in prior posts, the memory B and T cell response has far more plasticity than neutralizing antibodies for dealing with Omicron. We’ve already seen the 3rd shot data protection for Omicron and it’s quite strong versus severe disease, approximately 90% vs hospitalization, 95% vs death."
 
Chris_Halkides said:
Eric Topol's sub stack has some nice graphs and a discussion of a fourth shot. "As I’ve reviewed in prior posts, the memory B and T cell response has far more plasticity than neutralizing antibodies for dealing with Omicron. We’ve already seen the 3rd shot data protection for Omicron and it’s quite strong versus severe disease, approximately 90% vs hospitalization, 95% vs death."
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Thanks for that. Actual information is gratefully welcomed.
 
angrysoba said:
Not saying the OP is anti-vaxx but the anti-vaxxers have been pushing the Nirvana Fallacy logic hard during this. What if you can still get sick? What if you can still transmit? What if variants that are vaccine evasive come along?

The point is that vaccines REDUCE the chances of these and the more people vaccinated the fewer opportunities for the virus to mutate to something more evasive or transmissible.
Click to expand...

This. 1000 times this.
 
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