Utah teen guns down people randomly

bigred

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Too bad the police killed him instead of just blowing his kneecaps out, then throwing him in a dumpster somewhere.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,251603,00.html

PS: how about some mandates for metal/etc detectors in malls like they've done in schools? Sad that it's come to this, but it could be done I'd think fairly easily and would be pretty benign.
 
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Wasn't my intent, although it's bound to be kicked around given the subject. However, I'd ask/suggest if anyone wants to start up another gun control thread in general, to simply do so.
 
PS: how about some mandates for metal/etc detectors in malls like they've done in schools? Sad that it's come to this, but it could be done I'd think fairly easily and would be pretty benign.

Oh, hell no. More metal detectors won't keep this sort of thing from happening, it'll just keep people from going to malls. (Who do you think would pay for that sort of security, anyway?) Someone really intent on shooting people at random will just find some other public space.
 
Oh, hell no. More metal detectors won't keep this sort of thing from happening, it'll just keep people from going to malls. (Who do you think would pay for that sort of security, anyway?) Someone really intent on shooting people at random will just find some other public space.
Exactly. A standard shopping mall has several entrances, plus the entrances directly into the department stores. Are we going to place a rent-a-cops with metal detector wands at every entrance? What about outdoor malls?

An absolute nightmare to implement and easy to circumvent.
 
Too bad the police killed him instead of just blowing his kneecaps out, then throwing him in a dumpster somewhere.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,251603,00.html

PS: how about some mandates for metal/etc detectors in malls like they've done in schools? Sad that it's come to this, but it could be done I'd think fairly easily and would be pretty benign.
The reporter needs to expand his vocabulary.

"Several" rounds of ammunition? A round is a bullet, or a shell.
SALT LAKE CITY — The 18-year-old gunman who opened fire on shoppers in a mall, killing five and wounding four others before police fatally shot him, was armed with several rounds of ammunition and was carrying two guns, authorities said Tuesday.
I have a hunch that the kid was carrying pockets full of ammo. Several rounds would not have sufficed for the shooting spree, methinks.
Detectives were still trying to figure out what sparked the young man's rampage Monday night at the Trolley Square shopping mall.

Salt Lake City police Detective Robin Snyder said the shooter had been identified as an 18-year-old from the Salt Lake City area, but she did not release his name. He was firing with a shotgun, and also had a handgun and several rounds of ammunition, the detective said.
Weird word choice there.
"We heard them say, 'Police! Drop your weapon!' Then we heard shotgun fire. Then there was a barrage of gunfire," said Lund, 44. "It was hard to believe."

They say officers treated everyone like suspects — ordering those hiding in storerooms, bathrooms or under stairwells, to lie on the floor with their hands on their heads until police were sure no one posed a threat.

On the way out, Lund said, he saw a woman's body face-down at the entrance to Pottery Barn Kids and a man's body on the floor in the mall's east-west corridor. "There were a lot of blown-out store windows and shotgun shell casings all over the floor," Lund said. "It was quite surreal."
Several rounds, eh? :p
Barb McKeown, 60, of Washington, D.C., was in another antique shop when two frantic women ran in and reported gunshots.

"Then we heard shot after shot after shot — loud, loud, loud," said McKeown, saying she heard about 20. She and three other people hid under a staircase until it was safe to leave.



Glad they waxed him. He was using up good peoples' air.

God may forgive him, but I expect it will be tough on the victims' families to do so.

DR
 
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Exactly. A standard shopping mall has several entrances, plus the entrances directly into the department stores. Are we going to place a rent-a-cops with metal detector wands at every entrance? What about outdoor malls?

An absolute nightmare to implement and easy to circumvent.
Disagree. Quite easy to place metal detectors in key areas where you enter a mall/store. Doubt it would cost much either, tho can't say for sure.

I hardly submit that as some perfect solution, but if it helps (and it would) it'd be stupid not to.
 
Disagree. Quite easy to place metal detectors in key areas where you enter a mall/store. Doubt it would cost much either, tho can't say for sure.

I hardly submit that as some perfect solution, but if it helps (and it would) it'd be stupid not to.

But you need to have them manned, so you need more guards. And you need to have them have enough capacity to deal with surges. How long will people wait to go into a mall?
 
Wow. I used to live in Utah not far from there. I agree with bigred. The police should have blown his knee caps out and left him lying in a dumpster somewhere. The guy killed a 15 year old girl. That makes me utterly sick to my stomach. Guys like him are the reason I practice my right to carry a concealed weapon. I would have put a controlled pair right in his heart. Actually, I probably would have shot off all 17 of my rounds even once he hit the floor.
 
Disagree. Quite easy to place metal detectors in key areas where you enter a mall/store. Doubt it would cost much either, tho can't say for sure.

Wow. OK, let's run the numbers, shall we? Just for an example, I chose Alpharetta, GA's North Point Mall, since A) I'm familiar with it and B) it's about average-size as far as malls go.

For simplicity's sake, let's assume they put the security checkpoints around the outside entrances, rather than every entrance to the interior. (There are fewer of them, so it would be less costly.)

So we have four direct entrances to the mall, plus five two-story department stores. Each department store has at least two entrances from the outside, so we can assume at least 14 total entrances to the mall (it's probably closer to 25, but for the sake of argument, let's lowball it).

Now, then, how many checkpoints per entrance? I would think at least two to allow for steady traffic, but there's no way that just two detectors would fly around Christmastime.

I found one company selling walk-through metal detectors for as little as $3,600. That strikes me as a bit too cheap, especially if you want something hardy, but let's run with it. So initial equipment cost would be over $100,000 just to buy the equipment (2 checkpoints * 14 entrances * $3,600). However, this doesn't count upkeep or remodeling the entrances to accomodate security checkpoints.

The real cost, of course, would be staffing them. For each checkpoint, you're going to want at least two trained security guards. One to run the checkpoint, one to wand people down when people carry their car keys into the mall.

According to Salary.com, the average salary around these parts for a security guard is about $30,000, not counting taxes, benefits, and other stuff that an employer would pay--which would bump the total up to about $40,000 in my guesstimation. So 14 checkpoints * 2 checkpoints per entrance * 2 guards per checkpoint * $40,000 per year = $2,240,000. And that's not including extra guards that would have to be hired around the holidays or other busy times.

That's not inexpensive for any business, and I remind you that we lowballed a few of the numbers. Malls tend to have few employees for a reason--they're expensive to operate as it is. Where would this extra money come from? Well, the rents would go up, and the stores (the ones that didn't move out) would have to charge more. Who are they going to charge more? The customers, who are already deciding that they'd rather go to Target than have to go through a security checkpoint for the privilege of shopping.

I hardly submit that as some perfect solution, but if it helps (and it would) it'd be stupid not to.

No, it wouldn't help, it would just make shopping malls too costly to operate. And again, guy-wanting-to-kill-people would just find some other public space.
 
No, it wouldn't help, it would just make shopping malls too costly to operate. And again, guy-wanting-to-kill-people would just find some other public space.

Sounds like he could just set up outside a mall and get all those people lined up to pass security to go shopping.

Fish in a barrel.
 
Wow. I used to live in Utah not far from there. I agree with bigred. The police should have blown his knee caps out and left him lying in a dumpster somewhere. The guy killed a 15 year old girl. That makes me utterly sick to my stomach. Guys like him are the reason I practice my right to carry a concealed weapon. I would have put a controlled pair right in his heart. Actually, I probably would have shot off all 17 of my rounds even once he hit the floor.

Nearly verbatim to my own inner monologue.
 
Wow. I used to live in Utah not far from there. I agree with bigred. The police should have blown his knee caps out and left him lying in a dumpster somewhere. The guy killed a 15 year old girl. That makes me utterly sick to my stomach. Guys like him are the reason I practice my right to carry a concealed weapon. I would have put a controlled pair right in his heart. Actually, I probably would have shot off all 17 of my rounds even once he hit the floor.

My rule is innocent people killer gets no chance and slow service - and I tend to agree on either knee cap or gut and leave him. My carry is Black Talons for all but the .480 so I know the job will be done right.
 
Wow. I used to live in Utah not far from there. I agree with bigred. The police should have blown his knee caps out and left him lying in a dumpster somewhere. The guy killed a 15 year old girl. That makes me utterly sick to my stomach. Guys like him are the reason I practice my right to carry a concealed weapon. I would have put a controlled pair right in his heart. Actually, I probably would have shot off all 17 of my rounds even once he hit the floor.


Actually, could I recommend a well-placed head shot? It's usually instantly incapacitating, especially if it involves the brain stem.
 
Actually, could I recommend a well-placed head shot? It's usually instantly incapacitating, especially if it involves the brain stem.

It sure is. But have you ever tried to get off a well placed head shot in a combat environment with a handgun? Much harder than how the movies portray it:)
 

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