US Soldiers Beginning to Desert?

[Mr Manifesto]

5500 US Servicemen have Deserted

The Pentagon says more than 5,500 servicemen have deserted since the war started in Iraq.

60 Minutes Wednesday found several of these deserters who left the Army or Marine Corps rather than go to Iraq. Like a generation of deserters before them, they fled to Canada.

What do these men, who have violated orders and oaths, have to say for themselves? They told Correspondent Scott Pelley that conscience, not cowardice, made them American deserters. "I was a warrior. You know? I always have been. I’ve always felt that way -- that if there are people who can’t defend themselves, it’s my responsibility to do that," says Pfc. Dan Felushko, 24.

It was Felushko's responsibility to ship out with the Marines to Kuwait in Jan. 2003 to prepare for the invasion of Iraq. Instead, he slipped out of Camp Pendleton, Calif., and deployed himself to Canada.

"I didn’t want, you know, 'Died deluded in Iraq' over my gravestone," says Felushko. "If I'd gone, personally, because of the things that I believed, it would have felt wrong. Because I saw it as wrong, if I died there or killed somebody there, that would have been more wrong."

He told Pelley it wasn't fighting that bothered him. In fact, he says he started basic training just weeks after al Qaeda attacked New York and Washington –- and he was prepared to get even for Sept. 11 in Afghanistan.

But Felushko says he didn't see a connection between the attack on America and Saddam Hussein.

I haven't been able to find out if the 5500 figure is correct or not. Can anyone verify this (or debunk it, as may be the case)?

 

[BPSCG]

I haven't been able to find out if the 5500 figure is correct or not. Can anyone verify this (or debunk it, as may be the case)?

It's from CBS, so you know it must be true.

Assuming there are 150,000 or so troops in Iraq, 5500 would amount to about 3% or so. Is that an unusual desertion rate for troops in a combat area? Is that figure made up only of actual desertions - guys who have left never to return - as opposed to including anyone who's simply absent without leave or absent over leave? Story doesn't say.

 

[Hutch]

BPSCG, I concur. I have a hunch (and a hunch only) that the figures are for all military troops that are 'absent without leave', we have several turn themselves in here at Post (per the base paper). It may be family issues, or other problems, but most eventually come back, are either punished or given a discharge and the books are closed. I would doubt 5,500 have gone to Canada without more backup.

The only way to know is if the US Government shows the figures for troops absent without leave somewhere on the web and we can compare it to past totals for comparison.

I haven't heard of any troops actually in Iraq deserting, save for the strange story of the 'abducted' Marine who turned up in Lebanon...of course, it's something that the Pentagon wouldn't be advertising, either....

 

[BPSCG]

I have a hunch (and a hunch only) that the figures are for all military troops that are 'absent without leave', we have several turn themselves in here at Post (per the base paper).

So that would be a Hutch Hunch, or a "Huntch"?

Me go now...

 

[Mr Manifesto]

According to this Guardian article dated 5 May 2004, there were 1113 Marines that had deserted in 2003. The army recorded 2713. That brings it bloody close to the 5500 figure alone.

As for definitions of desertion, the US military seems pretty clear on that point. 30+ days AWOL = desertion (or desertion as BPSCG might put it).

 

[BPSCG]

According to this Guardian article dated 5 May 2004, there were 1113 Marines that had deserted in 2003. The army recorded 2713. That brings it bloody close to the 5500 figure alone.

Article from some website purporting to be an article from the Guardian cites mysterious Marine and Army reports which the reporter has obtained. I'd be interested to see those reports so the claims could be evaluated in context, instead of third-hand.

And again, even if accurate, is a 3% desertion rate unusual for troops in combat?

(or desertion as BPSCG might put it).

I use emphasis liberally when I think it helps make my point. If I would emphasize a word while speaking a sentence, I try to use it while writing it also - I think it helps the reader follow the cadence of what I'm trying to say, as well as highlight symmetries and asymmetries. It's also helpful, I think, when one tends to write very long sentences, as I am wont to do.

Or would you prefer I start writing in Tmy's style?

 

[Giz]

According to this Guardian article dated 5 May 2004, there were 1113 Marines that had deserted in 2003. The army recorded 2713. That brings it bloody close to the 5500 figure alone.

As for definitions of desertion, the US military seems pretty clear on that point. 30+ days AWOL = desertion (or desertion as BPSCG might put it).

Thats BPSCG to you!

 

[Hutch]

hmmmm... I located this soucre, which purpotes to be US Army figures, which show the number of deserters to be less in 2003 than in the previous years.

I still think the vast majority are new troops or inductees, who for family reasons or perhaps realizing that they are not really ready for the military simply disappear when on leave. I doubt the US Army spends much time or effort in finding them, the better to train the soldiers that want to be there.

I still see little evidence that any of the 5,500 or so 'deserters' are making their way to Canada or that the primary reason for desertion is not wanting to serve in Iraq.

Huntch, BPSCG? Now don't make me put a Government Acronym with your initials now.....

 

[BPSCG]

Huntch, BPSCG? Now don't make me put a Government Acronym with your initials now.....

Too late. Dorian Gray already came up with this a couple of months ago. It's an astonishing coincidence, but nothing more.

 

[Hutch]

Too late. Dorian Gray already came up with this a couple of months ago. It's an astonishing coincidence, but nothing more.

Nah, I mean one I make up, like the Bureau of Pontificating Statements and Confusing Generalities....or something like that.....

 

[Drooper]

Re: Re: US Soldiers Beginning to Desert?

It's from CBS, so you know it must be true.

Assuming there are 150,000 or so troops in Iraq, 5500 would amount to about 3% or so. Is that an unusual desertion rate for troops in a combat area? Is that figure made up only of actual desertions - guys who have left never to return - as opposed to including anyone who's simply absent without leave or absent over leave? Story doesn't say.

Actually the % of deserters would be even less.

Don't forget that there is service rotation.

So the correct calculation should be desertions/ (time x rotation x force)

 

[JAR]

5500 US Servicemen have Deserted

Assuming 5,500 US Servicemen have deserted, we have nothing to worry about. In the Civil War, more than two hundred thousand Americans who joined the Union army ended up deserting, and despite that, the Union still managed to win. A populous and large country can have catastrophe after catastrophe during a war, and still pull off a victory, and the U.S. is currently not even having catastrophe after catastrophe.

 

[Mycroft]

Too late. Dorian Gray already came up with this a couple of months ago. It's an astonishing coincidence, but nothing more.

So what do those letters stand for?

 

[BPSCG]

So what do those letters stand for?

Battersea Power Station Community Group.

Duh!

Oh, the other? It's just my onscreen alias.

 

[aerocontrols]

Some numbers, for perspective.

The number of annual military desertions is down to the lowest level since before 2001, according to the Pentagon.

The Army said the number of new deserters in 2004 -- 2,376 -- was just half the number of those who deserted prior to Sept. 11, 2001. That number was 4,597.

The numbers of deserters has dropped annually since the Sept. 11 attacks on New York and Washington. The fiscal year 2004 total number of Army deserters is the lowest since before 1998, according to Army data.

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