Uproar over "Russsian Roulette" Stunt.

[a_unique_person]

Magician's deadly game
October 6, 2003 - 10:00AM

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A British magician apparently "played" a deadly game of Russian roulette with a loaded pistol on a television show today despite criticism the stunt could lead to copycats.

The show by self-styled "psychological illusionist" Derren Brown was broadcast on Channel Four television, which said there would be a slight tape delay so transmission could be quickly ended if he blew his head off.

Brown carried out his stunt in an unnamed foreign country, since handguns are illegal in Britain.

A volunteer, picked by Brown from 12,000 hopefuls, put a bullet in one of the gun's six chambers. Brown then said he was reading the volunteer's mind to determine where the bullet was before putting the gun to his head.

Twice Brown put the revolver to his head and squeezed the trigger. On the third shot the illusionist pointed the gun away and fired. The chamber was empty.

After several minutes of silent contemplation Brown fired at his head and then quickly fired the live round into a wall of sandbags.

Well, it had to be a trick, of course. But is it ethical?

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/10/06/1065292502963.html

 

[Garrette]

While I would not let my young children see this demonstration without some very heavy discussion with them before and after, I do not see this as unethical.

It is not the responsibility of any performer to save a viewer from himself.

---

It might be relevant to discuss what Brown's style is. His disclaimer about his 'powers' is not so clear cut as some in the skeptic community might deem appropriate. He admits to having no paranormal ability, but describes his act in such a manner that--while technically accurate--leads the less discerning audience member to think there is 'something' there.

This is, in fact, the basis of his act. He is an 'atmosphere' magician. (The term is mine, not his).

Frankly, I agree with his approach, and what little bit of 'performing' I do is along his lines of creating an aura and atmosphere.

/digression

 

[Jon_in_london]

Well, revolvers are illegal in the UK. So if any illegal gun-owners want to go ahead and give the chambers a spin...... well, thats just fine by me. The more the merrier in fact!!!

I watched it btw, it was very good. I wonder if he actually uses trickery or if he really did read the guy?

BTW- he pulled the trigger with the gun to his head twice- then chickened out and pulled the trigger with the gun aimed away but just a click. Then he did another one to his head and the last one- which he aimed away was the live one.
Bah! only 50%.

Last thing- While he was doing the trigger pulling, there was no music or lights or other shiznt. That added to the atmosphere hugely.

 

[a_unique_person]

BTW- he pulled the trigger with the gun to his head twice- then chickened out and pulled the trigger with the gun aimed away but just a click. Then he did another one to his head and the last one- which he aimed away was the live one.

Well, he had to make a show of it. Just standing there going click, click, click isn't nearly as effective.

 

[Liamo]

I watched it btw, it was very good. I wonder if he actually uses trickery or if he really did read the guy?

Maybe it's not so much about reading the guy but rather conditioning him to pick one (or two!) specific chamber. After listening to Derren's instructions, and while the guy loaded the gun, I figured it would be no. 1 (my gf thought no. 5)... (ok, it's only a 1 one 6 chance of guessing correctly, but there are some clues).

The shield to hide the barrel was a very nice touch, especially as it was introduced a the last possible moment

Liam

 

[mummymonkey]

There are many ways the illusion could have been done. There is no way of knowing if the helper put anything in the gun. If he did it could have been an inert round.
I didn't tape it but I have the distinct impression that the 'money shot' took place just out of camera shot. (He held the gun at arms length for a very brief moment). So we didn't actually see the gun go off. We just heard a gun shot.
If anybody made a recording perhaps they could check if this is so or is it my memory playing tricks on me?

 

[Lothian]

Garrettte,

I disagree (mildly). He does give some mystery to his tricks however he makes it very clear that he does not uses psychic powers. Someone would have to ignore that clear statement to assume that he does have psychic ability, but I suppose you are right no matter how clear he makes it some people will not believe him and think he has powers he doesn't realise

The most impressive trick on the show was with the final 5 volunteers.

He lined up 6 differently coloured chairs then played Word association with the 5. When someone lost they had to pick any free chair and sit on it.
When the winner sat down there was an empty chair left. An envelope under the chair had Derren’s name in it.

Not content with that each of the other five chairs was then revealed to have an envelope with the name of the person sat in that chair.

He must have had a psychic insight

 

[Liamo]

There are many ways the illusion could have been done. There is no way of knowing if the helper put anything in the gun. If he did it could have been an inert round.
I didn't tape it but I have the distinct impression that the 'money shot' took place just out of camera shot. (He held the gun at arms length for a very brief moment). So we didn't actually see the gun go off. We just heard a gun shot.
If anybody made a recording perhaps they could check if this is so or is it my memory playing tricks on me?

As far as I remember, the gun was fired immediately after the 4th 'click', leaving no time to cut to a different angle (and to avoid any extreme reaction from the loader?), and the gun seemed to go off (of course, no sparks/flames, just as you would expect).

Re: my last comment, of course it does not mean there was no trick beside suggestion; but as he does uses these techniques in some effects, it is very possible he would try to influence the loader while also relying on other methods.

 

[Peter S.]

Reminds me of a discussion a friend of mine had with Mike Caveny about David Copperfield's escape from the imploding building. My friend said, "Copperfield wasn't anywhere near that building when it blew up, right?", to which Caveny said, "What do you think?"

Whatever method he used, you can be sure it sure fire, (pun intended).

 

[cerberus]

There are many ways the illusion could have been done. There is no way of knowing if the helper put anything in the gun. If he did it could have been an inert round.
I didn't tape it but I have the distinct impression that the 'money shot' took place just out of camera shot. (He held the gun at arms length for a very brief moment). So we didn't actually see the gun go off. We just heard a gun shot.
If anybody made a recording perhaps they could check if this is so or is it my memory playing tricks on me?

Just watched the final couple of minutes again - as you say the final shot is out of camera shot - but you do hear a bang, but you do see a puff of smoke coming back into camera shot. Also the camera shot then changes and you see the sand bag again at the far end of the room and there are now 2 streams of sand falling from it. A couple of minutes before there was just the one that was done by the firearms expert at the start.

Edited for spelling

 

[glee]

There was a sandbag (or similar) hanging up in the direction he pointed the gun.
Sadly we never saw what damage the bullet did.

I think Derren is very clever, and he also makes it completely clear he is not psychic.
In one of his illusions, he asked two advertising people to construct a poster. When they finished he revealed 'one he had done earlier', which was practically identical (both words and pictures). Then Derren showed a tape of the journey the advertisers made to the appointment. They passed all sorts of clues (both words and pictures) that would apply to the poster.
So he's a clever guy and a well-prepared illusionist.

 

[glee]

Just watched the final couple of minutes again - as you say the final shot is out of camera shot - but you do hear a bang, but you do see a puff of smoke coming back into camera shot. Also the camera shot then changes and you see the sand bag again at the far end of the room and there are now 2 streams of sand falling from it. A couple of minutes before there was just the one that was done by the firearms expert at the start

Well there you go - memory is not 100% reliable. I could have sworn we didn't see the sandbag!

 

[Dazza]

I've just posted description of what i saw last night on a thread in the "general scepticism and the paranormal" section. Then I spotted this thread.

Never mind

Can I just add that however this was done it was done brilliantly?

As a non-magician, I don't know exactly what was done, but it was very convincing. It was also incredibly tense. Usually magic can be entertaining but never scary - you always know the magician is in control and is perfectly safe. This felt like we were watching someone risking his life. The production of the show was superb. No drumrolls to distract from the tension. No commentary.

As to whether its ethical or not - sure it is. There was nothing in the programme that trivialised what he was doing or which suggests that anyone could do it. It was shown after 9pm which is a 'watershed' in the UK which means that parents should be aware that it is not suitable for children, and the extreme nature of the content was trailed right at the outset.

 

[Matabiri]

There's a good article about Brown here: http://www.simonsingh.com/Derren_Brown_Article.html

 

[Garrette]

Lothian,

No problem with the disagreement. I perfectly understand his disclaimers, and think they're right on. They simply don't, and intentionally don't, make it slam-bam clear cut like:

"Everything I do tonight is a trick so stop believing it's anything more."

I'm glad they're not that way. I prefer the mysterious style myself. He explains his approach very clearly and quite eruditely and sometimes humorously crudely in his two books.

 

[Lothian]

Lothian,

I prefer the mysterious style myself. He explains his approach very clearly and quite eruditely and sometimes humorously crudely in his two books.

Two books !

I foresee early movement on the Xmas list front.

 

[Jon_in_london]

Just watched the final couple of minutes again - as you say the final shot is out of camera shot - but you do hear a bang, but you do see a puff of smoke coming back into camera shot. Also the camera shot then changes and you see the sand bag again at the far end of the room and there are now 2 streams of sand falling from it. A couple of minutes before there was just the one that was done by the firearms expert at the start.

Edited for spelling

Hmmm I wonder if this is a clue to the trickery (although I do thin khe is brilliant, he aint so stoopid as to put a loaded revolver to his head and pull the trigger), Notice the firearms expert couldnt get the revolver to hit the sandbag dead-centre? It isnt easy to aim a small arm. Derren seemed to hit the bag without even taking the trouble to aim properly. I'd guess he had a little remotely detonated firework hidden in the sack....

Nevertheless or whatever he did, It was DAMNED good entertainment!!!!

 

[Ed]

Well, revolvers are illegal in the UK. So if any illegal gun-owners want to go ahead and give the chambers a spin...... well, thats just fine by me. The more the merrier in fact!!!

Jon, are you suggesting that the penalty for illeagel gun ownership should be death?

 

[Jon_in_london]

Jon, are you suggesting that the penalty for illeagel gun ownership should be death?

Well, if its self inflicted..............

Actually yes I do. Ownership of an illegal firearm is tantamount to conspiracy to commit murder.

Illegal gun ownership is the reason law-abiding citizens have to jump through hoops in order to possess one........

 

[magicflute]

Nothing New!

I have a video that must be close to 20 years old of Larry Becker performing "Russian Roulette" stunt! He added a couple of twists but basicaly the same thing.