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ULTIMA1 explains Pearl Harbor

dtugg

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ULTIMA1 thinks it is proven that the USG had foreknowledge of and perhaps had something to do with the planning of Pear Harbor. I don't think he can even prove that they had foreknowledge. I anxiously await my pwning.
 
ULITMA1, do you still think that the USG at least had foreknowledge of Pear Harbor, and that it was perhaps a false flag?
 
NOW YOU HAVE DONE IT!
Now he will come along and post to EVERY SINGLE thread in this forum as well.
:D
 
dtugg said:
ULTIMA1 thinks it is proven that the USG had foreknowledge of and perhaps had something to do with the planning of Pear Harbor. I don't think he can even prove that they had foreknowledge. I anxiously await my pwning.
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Let me guess in advance: Lots of Stinnett with the claim that since he has lots of endnotes he must have done research.
 
Did Roosevelt have some idea that an attack was coming? Maybe.

do i care? not really. the sooner we joined the war against Fascism..the better off the world would be.
 
parky76 said:
Did Roosevelt have some idea that an attack was coming? Maybe.
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They probably expected an attack but not at Pearl Harbor. They were expecting it at the Philippines.

This whole they let Pearl Harbor happen BS doesn't even make any sense. If they knew about the attack, they would have moved all the ships from the harbor and mounted a counter attack that might have destroyed six Japanese aircraft carriers. And it would have still had the effect of getting the United States into the war.
 
yeah. allowing your entire pacific fleet to get annihilated..and possibly allow for an attack on San Francisco...doesnt sound very logical to me.
 
I don't think that would have transpired. Japanese high command wanted to restrict our ability to project power. They wanted free reign over the Pacific to be able to lock down all sea lanes in the Pacific Rim. Sure, as the war progressed there were limited assaults on the mainland, but all but a few savvy Generals and Admirals over there thought we would take our bloody nose at Pearl and go back to our Glenn Miller and Jane Russell.
 
parky76 said:
yeah. allowing your entire pacific fleet to get annihilated...
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The results of the attack weren't quite that bad, at least not in the longer term. Only two of the battleships hit that day were total losses, the Arizona and Oklahoma. The California and West Virginia, though sunk, were eventually raised, repaired, and returned to service; the same was true for the beached Nevada. The other three, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, and Maryland suffered relatively minor damage.

Indeed, the Tennessee, California, and West Virginia were nearly completely rebuilt after Pearl Harbor, becoming fully modern battleships in all respects except speed.
 
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Corsair 115 said:
The results of the attack weren't quite that bad, at least not in the longer term. Only two of the battleships hit that day were total losses, the (Arizona and Oklahoma. The (California and West Virginia), though sunk, were eventually raised, repaired, and returned to service; the same was true for the beached Nevada. The other three, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, and Maryland suffered relatively minor damage.

Indeed, the Tennessee, California, and West Virginia were nearly completely rebuilt after Pearl Harbor, becoming fully modern battleships in all respects except speed.
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Hence displaying a weakness of both the Nazis and the Japanese: The total underestimation of the USA's uncanny ability to build the absolute HELL out of stuff.
 
It would be ridiculous to think that Pearl Harbor was a false flag. The Shelling of Mainila was a real false flag done by the Soviet Union during WW2.
 
kookbreaker said:
Let me guess in advance: Lots of Stinnett with the claim that since he has lots of endnotes he must have done research.
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Actually, Pearl Harbor Conspiracy theories have been around a long time before Stinnett. "Day of Deceit" basically just recyled the Same Old S---,
a little bogus "new" evidence added.
 
They probably expected an attack but not at Pearl Harbor. They were expecting it at the Philippines.
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Correct. An attack on the Phllipines and Guam was expected; an attack on Hawaii except for sabotage and maybe some Submarine action was never serously considered.As one high ranking official stated after the war "We never thought the bastards would have the nerve to attack us that far to the East."
And, BTW, the Japanese were taking a huge gamble in attacking Pearl. Several high ranking Japanese admirals were opposed to the attack for that very reason. Yamamoto had to fight to get his plan adapted. And even he expected to lose one third of his ships. But he felt paralyzing the American Fleet at the outset was the only chance Japan had.
 
dtugg said:
They probably expected an attack but not at Pearl Harbor. They were expecting it at the Philippines.

This whole they let Pearl Harbor happen BS doesn't even make any sense. If they knew about the attack, they would have moved all the ships from the harbor and mounted a counter attack that might have destroyed six Japanese aircraft carriers. And it would have still had the effect of getting the United States into the war.
Click to expand...

I thought the theory was that "they" wanted the Battleships out of commision because "they" knew Carriers were the new powerhouse. Hence the Carriers being out that day. With that thought, the Pacific Fleet took no important damage as the Carriers were safely away.

That makes a little sense from a certain perspective.
 
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