Twelfth graders score record lows in basic reading, math skills

[bigred]

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2025-09-09/us-twelfth-graders-had-lowest-reading-performance-in-three-decades-report-shows

I'd ask people not to use this as an excuse to go on a political rant about how "the other side sucks, it's all their fault," but I know better...

As for state vs federal involvement in this and what the best mix is, I won't pretend to know. Seems to me state govts are just as incompetent as the feds generally, regardless of who's in office, and especially when it comes to education. I think it started when we decided to shred teacher authority and let the inmates (kids) run the asylum and get away with BS we never would have dreamed of trying in times gone by.

 

[Norman Alexander]

This should help: List of US states by Educational Attainment.

I would note that this subject has been trotted out previously across the world. One of the problems is "talking past each other" as to what "educational attainment", or reading skills, actually is. What is being meant, what is being measured, as "basic reading skills".

Some people mean it to be basic reading and writing skills, i.e. just enough ability to read a utility bill or a speeding ticket. Or at least recognise their own name and address on a letter. This is a rudimentary level of reading.

Others mean the ability to read and comprehend basic stories in newspapers and books, to write a letter, and a cheque (US only). at a junior school level. This is a basic level of reading.

And others again mean the ability to locate, read and comprehend many complex documents with wide-ranging vocabularies such as university research papers, jurisprudence legal documents, and government policy and legislation. This is an advanced level of reading.

None of these things is much like the others.

Similarly for mathematics abilities: basic arithmetic, versus basic algebra and trigonometry, versus calculus and on up.

Define your measures, i.e. define your expectations.

 

[bigred]

For this country? I have no expectations.

 

[Norman Alexander]

For this country? I have no expectations.

I mean...

The posters I read here, most of them being American, are definitely in the latter category - top tier skills. That includes most of the usual right-wing suspects too. So I expect them, as functioning adults, to write, read and comprehend very well.

Meanwhile, most MAGA have demonstrated they barely make it out of the lowest tier of reading and comprehension abilities, if at all. So my expectations of them are kindergarten level or below, like dealing with schoolyard brats whose special skills are habitual truancy, minor theft and the odd bit of light thuggery, not academics.

 

[bigred]

And here come the political rants. Quelle surprise!

 

[Norman Alexander]

And here come the political rants. Quelle surprise!

Comparisons.

We have similar issues here in Australia, if that sooths you. It tends to be a country/city divide more frequently. And also big business employer versus small business employer perspectives. Not so much political.

 

[arthwollipot]

Comparisons.

We have similar issues here in Australia, if that sooths you. It tends to be a country/city divide more frequently. And also big business employer versus small business employer perspectives. Not so much political.

Except that the less-educated trend towards the right wing here as they do there. Like it or not, education is a political subject.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Except that the less-educated trend towards the right wing here as they do there. Like it or not, education is a political subject.

It used to be the opposite, by and large. The huddled underclass were socialist workers, trades unionists, etc. I think the change came with the rise of the trash rags like Murdoch

 

[Brainster]

No mention of the Covid year off effect?

 

[Darat]

Comparisons.

We have similar issues here in Australia, if that sooths you. It tends to be a country/city divide more frequently. And also big business employer versus small business employer perspectives. Not so much political.

And in the UK. But for us it's not the country/city divide - ours is generally a poverty issue, which becomes a vicious feedback loop, on the whole state schools (and the abominations of academy schools) in areas with higher levels of poverty perform worse, making the area as a whole less attractive, and so it continues.

For those that like to look beyond the education people receive both at home and at school, you know those people that view the world through the lines of shall I say "genetic differences", the worse academically performing group in England and Wales are working class white males, working class black males do better, and they are all outshone by working class girls.

 

[Trausti]

My non-political excuse would be to blame "smart" phones and social media. Reading comprehension beyond a few sentences is not necessary.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

This should help: List of US states by Educational Attainment.

I would note that this subject has been trotted out previously across the world. One of the problems is "talking past each other" as to what "educational attainment", or reading skills, actually is. What is being meant, what is being measured, as "basic reading skills".

I know it was probably a rhetorical question, but I liked this video's take.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Are we sure this isn't just a "kids these days" trope?

I mean, you could compare this with: Older people score badly in Technology.

Are we testing the right things and/or in the right way?

Just asking, not committed to the stance, and I'm hoping more detail will be forthcoming.

 

[Helen]

And in the UK. But for us it's not the country/city divide - ours is generally a poverty issue, which becomes a vicious feedback loop, on the whole state schools (and the abominations of academy schools) in areas with higher levels of poverty perform worse, making the area as a whole less attractive, and so it continues.

For those that like to look beyond the education people receive both at home and at school, you know those people that view the world through the lines of shall I say "genetic differences", the worse academically performing group in England and Wales are working class white males, working class black males do better, and they are all outshone by working class girls.

The situation is very similar in Sweden; the rich get richer and the poor get poorer (or the gap widens, at least), and this is true of education as well - to those that have shall be given...

Are we sure this isn't just a "kids these days" trope?

I mean, you could compare this with: Older people score badly in Technology.

Are we testing the right things and/or in the right way?

Just asking, not committed to the stance, and I'm hoping more detail will be forthcoming.

I suspect this is a component - even Socrates was very critical of the youth of his time, their education and manners. And children need other skills and different kinds of knowledge today. That said, they also need the basic skills, but perhaps we need different methods to teach them what they need to know. In Sweden, teaching is no longer a well-paid job with high status, and we can't expect students to do as well if the standards of teaching drop.

 

[ahhell]

Except that the less-educated trend towards the right wing here as they do there. Like it or not, education is a political subject.

That hasn't always been the case. The Dems in the US used to be the party of the working class and still think of themselves as such despite that clearly not being true anymore.

At least in the US money isn't the problem. Per pupil spending has increased steadily, even adjusted for inflation while measures of performance have steadily decreased. There's also not much correlation between places in the US that spend more per student and student performance.

This should help: List of US states by Educational Attainment.

I would note that this subject has been trotted out previously across the world. One of the problems is "talking past each other" as to what "educational attainment", or reading skills, actually is. What is being meant, what is being measured, as "basic reading skills".

Some people mean it to be basic reading and writing skills, i.e. just enough ability to read a utility bill or a speeding ticket. Or at least recognise their own name and address on a letter. This is a rudimentary level of reading.

Others mean the ability to read and comprehend basic stories in newspapers and books, to write a letter, and a cheque (US only). at a junior school level. This is a basic level of reading.

And others again mean the ability to locate, read and comprehend many complex documents with wide-ranging vocabularies such as university research papers, jurisprudence legal documents, and government policy and legislation. This is an advanced level of reading.

None of these things is much like the others.

Similarly for mathematics abilities: basic arithmetic, versus basic algebra and trigonometry, versus calculus and on up.

Define your measures, i.e. define your expectations.

Not sure why that would help. Educational attainment has more to do with the key industries in a state than the performance of schools there. Particularly the primary and secondary schools. Based on that list, you'd think DC had the best schools in the US.

 

[Norman Alexander]

That hasn't always been the case. The Dems in the US used to be the party of the working class and still think of themselves as such despite that clearly not being true anymore.

Same elsewhere.

At least in the US money isn't the problem. Per pupil spending has increased steadily, even adjusted for inflation while measures of performance have steadily decreased. There's also not much correlation between places in the US that spend more per student and student performance.

That suggests quite strongly that the money is NOT being spent on facilities and services that improve education outcomes. Pouring more money in but getting worse results is not a great "business model", if you like.

Not sure why that would help. Educational attainment has more to do with the key industries in a state than the performance of schools there. Particularly the primary and secondary schools.

Or it could be the inverse: local industries drive the educational requirements. It doesn't take secondary education or a university degree to dig coal. The list is of education levels in a population.

Based on that list, you'd think DC had the best schools in the US.

You might read that wrong. Based on that list, DC has the highest percentage of school and university graduates in their population. The population of DC has a higher level of education. Where they got it from is not the purpose of the list.

 

[gabeygoat]

No mention of the Covid year off effect?

My non-political excuse would be to blame "smart" phones and social media. Reading comprehension beyond a few sentences is not necessary.

I think these are good points. While I think the shutdown was good for saving lives, I can only imagine it wasn't the geatest for student's education and mental health.
Smart Phones etc are an issue as well. Mostly the hybrid (online/in person) sort of classes, where a lot of valuable time is wasted on just getting meetings started or figuring out how to turn in projects.
I definitely don't think the kids are any less intelligent now. It's just being used in different spaces.
Grandma may be great at math, but needs the grand kids to clear her voicemail, that sort of thing.

ETA:Kids these Dayz!

 

[ahhell]

Same elsewhere.

That suggests quite strongly that the money is NOT being spent on facilities and services that improve education outcomes. Pouring more money in but getting worse results is not a great "business model", if you like.

Or it could be the inverse: local industries drive the educational requirements. It doesn't take secondary education or a university degree to dig coal. The list is of education levels in a population.

You might read that wrong. Based on that list, DC has the highest percentage of school and university graduates in their population. The population of DC has a higher level of education.
Where they got it from is not the purpose of the list.

That is why I'm not convinced it helps this conversation. All those college grades could be from other countries, doesn't say anything about the educational system in DC or the really the US. So, don't see how it's relevant to this conversation.

I agree, money in the US education system seems to have gone to things other than education. Its difficult to figure out though. Its easy to find school employees per student, it not quite as easy to find the number of teachers per student.

 

[Helen]

There is another reason; more and more kids/young people need to go to school for longer - you can'l leave early and get a job, if school is not for you - those kinds of jobs no longer exist, and if you haven't completed high school, it's no longer really possible, or at least very, very difficult, to find a job at all. So kids with no real aptitude for studying (for whatever reason), have to stay in school nevertheless.

 

[novaphile]

That is why I'm not convinced it helps this conversation. All those college grades could be from other countries, doesn't say anything about the educational system in DC or the really the US. So, don't see how it's relevant to this conversation.

I agree, money in the US education system seems to have gone to things other than education. Its difficult to figure out though. Its easy to find school employees per student, it not quite as easy to find the number of teachers per student.

It could be a common problem that I've seen around Australia.

Instead of hiring 'employees', because that is bad as it increases the numbers of 'public servants' (who are always bad), schools hire 'contractors' through contracting firms.

The result is you have to pay a lot more money for the same (more typically less) service, and a big chunk of that money goes to the agency.

Every time this is done, more money is spent for less result.

There's never any follow up, where functions are brought back in house, because this is politically motivated, because all public servants are bad, and anything done by a government employee is bad.

Just one of those things.

Remember kids, Private Good, Public Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.